Tried something different today, and a problem arose....

[Dalton Masterson]

I tried something different today. Last year as a door prize, I got a few packages of Pyrodex 30gr pellets. Well I found them last night, and decided to give them a try. I was using my 1851s. They didnt shoot too bad, but the boom wasnt there that I normally have with 30 gr of loose powder. They were probably faster to load, but not much.

Anyhoo, after shot #1, I noticed my barrel wedge was sticking out. I pushed it back in, and after shot #2, again the wedge was sticking out. This happened every shot, except on #4 it came all the way out. I replaced it for #5 and #6, which it still came part way out.

So, remembering back to when I had my conversion cylinder in this gun, I was losing wedges then too. What do you suppose is causing it? I have replaced wedges with new, and everything looks right barrel slot wise. Does it maybe have a slight taper in the slot? Do I need to fit a 1872 wedge and screw into it?

DM

[Springfield Slim]

I have 4 '51's and I have never had this happen and find it difficult to imagine. Maybe I just don't much imaginaton, but don't your wedges have a spring on the far side to hold them in place? Maybe they just aren't in far enough.

[Dalton Masterson]

They do have the spring, and they are in as far as they can go. The spring lip is actually pushed past the edge of the barrel slot when I put them in.
I have about 10 different opentop Colts like this, and this is the only one I have ever had any trouble with over the years. I figured it was just something to do with the smokeless powder in the conversion cylinder before. I shot them 2 months ago or so at a match, and had no problems with it using loose powder. Doesnt make sense...
DM

[Montana Slim]

A correctly fited wedge will just have the lip (on the spring) past the right side of the barrel. The screw opposite should be adjusted to "stop" the wedge from protruding further than this. Most wedge springs have a rounded "edge" where it would snap up against the side of the barrel. I file mine to put a clean, sharp edge on them (ie, to correct them).

The wedge should draw the barrel down snug against the cylinder, holding the cylinder likewise against the frame. The cylinder should only have a few tho's play fore-aft.

Arbor length, slot location, wedge, etc. when fitted correctly makes for a sturdy settup. I'd say the first step would be to fit an oversize (width wedge). You can weld on your factory one, or a replacement. Generally, I find the wedges stocked by Dixie Gun Works to be a bit oversize, which may be of benefit. next step would be to setup the wedge/wedge screw per the above and see how it works.

Regards,
Slim

[Dalton Masterson]

Interesting. My barrel is flush against the frame, before I add a wedge. So basically my wedge is not doing anything, other than keeping the barrel from falling off in the holster.... Sounds like I have some tuning to do before Labor day. That or swap out this one for my '60.
Thanks for the ideas.
DM

[Noz]

Dalton, is the gun Pietta or Uberti. Some of the Ubertis have improper arbor/barrel relationship and do funky things.
The screw on the left side of the gun over the wedge slot is there to keep the wedge from falling out if it should become pushed all the way to the left. It serves no other function.
I under stand that the pellets make interesting 4th of July displays when lit with a piece of cannon fuse.  The ones I've seen used in the revolvers were not so very good.

[Dalton Masterson]

I agree Noz. The pellets work alright, and they were free. I wont use them in a match for sure. Might end up taking them rabbit hunting or something.
I tried some of them way back when they came out in my 50 Hawken. Didnt work very well, being a sidelock and all. BUT, they did make little roman candles when shot off with no ball.

BTW, its a Pietta 1851.
On my Walker, I ground a flat spot on the screw, and use the screw to hold the wedge. It works very well, and is the same setup as on the 1872 opentops for the most part. I may end up doing the same thing to this one.
DM

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Interesting. My barrel is flush against the frame, before I add a wedge. So basically my wedge is not doing anything, other than keeping the barrel from falling off in the holster.... Sounds like I have some tuning to do before Labor day. That or swap out this one for my '60.
Thanks for the ideas.
DM

Howdy, Dalton.

I'm no technician, so this is just my observation.The wedge itself is tapered, when viewed from above - but only slightly.  If your barrel is against the frame/end of the arbor, then there's no tension for that wedge taper to work on.  If the side of the wedge is only bearing on either the barrel or the arbor itself, there's no tension keeping it in place, it seems to me.

As to the Pyrodex pellets, I'll add this:  I didn't much care for them either.  Until I got my Dragoon.  The max load in a Dragoon is (nominally) 50 grs.  When mine was new, I wanted to try different strength loads.  (I must add here I am an unashamed Warthog and I prefer the max safe loads - IF they perform without problems.)  I had some pellets I'd gotten for less than $5 at a close-out sale when the best BP-oriented store in the Indy area closed when the owner decided to retire to Florida.  I went through various volumes of powder starting at about 30 grs. on up.  (Below 30 grs., it wasn't compressing the powder with a roundball and I didn't want an air-gap.)  When I got near the top loads (48-50 grs. by volume - in other words - FULL with no appreciable space between the seated ball and the frame opening) every time I fired , the loading lever would unlatch itself and fall down.  Not good.  So, I backed it down.  I got to the 43-46 gr. range and found a happy load, where I had max bang & smoke PLUS CAS suitable accuracy.  Matter of fact, it produced EXCELLENT accuracy.  Then, I decided to add a pellet to the mix.  I put in about 15 grs. (by vol.) of loose 3f powder, then a 30 grs. Pyro pellet and seated a ball.  BAM!  I found the BEST loading of all I have ever tried!  One of the complaints that BP shooters have with Pyrodex is that it is harder to "light" than regular powder.  This is one of the reasons that CCI developed their "magnum" percussion caps.  Well, I wasn't using mag caps (no need to, with the loose powder being in the chamber next to the flash hole/nipple [cone] base) and the powder must've been the perfect ignition source for the pellets.  It has been a real hoot!  When loaded as such, my Dragoon takes on a different personality!  The normal BOOM is a sharper crack and the recoil feels much more like a magnum load.  Or at least the type of felt recoil one experiences with a revolver weighing nearly 4.5 pounds!!!  It's fun - or it was until I ran out of pellets.  I haven't paid the normal ransom ... er, price since then for pellets, but it DID produce the BEST results to MY liking from my Dragoon.  Colt, 2nd Gen., 1st Model Dragoon)  I now shoot it with about 40 grs. (vol) of 3f Goex and that is the best compromise I have now of power, accuracy, smoke, flames, noise ... and fun!

Of course, YMMV.  (your mileage may vary)  Is my load necessary for the CAS (NCOWS & a little SASS) shooting I do?  Nope.  But it sure is fun ... which is what this is all about, after all!  And ... historically, it's pretty close to what was used in this gun "back in the day."  (For a time, anyway - I won't go into the newer loadings after the 45 S&W came out which reduced the powder.)  I believe that I've read from numerous sources that the 45 Colt load was developed to perform very much like these Big Boom loads - with a larger projectile.  (255 gr. lead, 40 grs. BP, in a balloon-head case)  (And I'm pretty sure the 45 ACP load was ALSO developed to mimic the same, or similar load using the smokeyless powder, hence the smaller case capacity.)

[Arizona Trooper]

A friend of mine has a Remington 44 revolving carbine and we decided to try some pellets in that. The cylinder would hold 2 under a round ball in each chamber. Well..... The first shot produced a sort of fffffffoPPPP and the ball stuck in the target backer way low at 25 yards. The second shot was even better. The fop sound was much weaker and we watched with amusement as the ball headed down range, at a plainly visible and very leisurely speed, followed by two flaming pellets trailing lots of smoke. By the time he fired all six chambers, several of us were laughing so hard we could barely stand up! It got even funnier in the retelling around the campfire.

The duplex load with a few grains of black sounds like the way to go.

[Paladin UK]

Like Noz says........

is the gun Pietta or Uberti. Some of the Ubertis have improper arbor/barrel relationship and do funky things.

My American Arms (Uberti) Arbor was well short!!  







This fix made one hell of a difference

Paladin (What lurvs his opentops  ) UK

[Noz]

Yup!