45-60 Load info

[Silver_Rings]

These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk. 

They were fired in a Chappy 1876 reproduction with 28" barrel.

Brass by Jamison
OAL 2.27
Oregon Trails lazercast 300 gr hard cast rnfp bullet
Powder Accurate 5744
Winchester standard large rifle primers
temp 60s, alt 6100ft

load     velocity low   velocity high
24.4         1267           1290
25.0         1303           1396    strange but this load was faster than 26.0 load
26.0         1316           1350

All had a lot of unburned powder.

I'm thinking about trying a filler.  Anyone know how much I should reduce my loads when using a poly or a toilet paper filler?

Silver Rings

[curdog]

Sr adding filler won't get rid of the unburned powder. It's the nature of the beast.

[Silver_Rings]

These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk. 

They were fired in a Chappy 1876 reproduction with 28" barrel.

Brass by Jamison
OAL 2.27
Oregon Trails lazercast 300 gr hard cast rnfp bullet
Powder Accurate 5744
Winchester standard large rifle primers
temp 60s, alt 6100ft

load     velocity low   velocity high
24.4         1267           1290
25.0         1303           1396    strange but this load was faster than 26.0 load
26.0         1316           1350

All had a lot of unburned powder.

I'm thinking about trying a filler.  Anyone know how much I should reduce my loads when using a poly or a toilet paper filler?

Silver Rings

Here are the results using poly fille, everything else the same as above.

22 gr 5744

low 1246
high 1288

23 gr 5744

low 1299
high 1325

24 gr 5744

low 1348
high 1363

25 gr 5744

low 1400
high 1427

The filler increased the velocity and reduced the spread.
These loads have not been pressure tested, so use at your own risk.

SR

[Joe Lansing]

   I have been loading 45-60's with 4759.  When I started loading, using the recommended  load published in the Handloader's Digest, my m.v. was significantly less than was the published data. I also observed a significant amount of unburned powder left in the barrel.I read somewhere else (I don't remember where) that too much space in the case (ie: reduced loads) can contribute to unburned powder.
    Pondering this, I decided to try using a filler. I selected Quaker Puffed Rice because the old timers often used cereal as fillers, and it is compressable. Using loads with the same charge, but with the filler added, the m.v. was consistantly higher....in the range of the published data....and NO unburned powder.

                                                                J.L.

[Joe Lansing]

P.S.    I believe the increase in m.v. is certainly because the previously unburned powder is now burning.

                                                                       J.L.

[curdog]

I read someplace and I don't remember if it was on the Accurate Powder site or somewhere else that 5744 will leave unburned powder in large vollume cases. The only way to cut down is to raise the pressure fairly high. Higher than the old rifles can stand. I use 5744 in my 32-40 in a Winchester 94 and it leaves less unburned powder but still leaves some grains unburned. However I still like using this powder.

[h c ramrod]

I ALSO USE 5744 AND FOUND IT LEFT FLAKES IT THE BARRELL BUT I ALSO FOUND THAT IT IS THE MOST CONSISTANT FOR FPS.  AND VERY ACURATE, I TRIED 4198 AND THAT LEFT UN BURNED POWDER IN THE BARELL AS WELL AND 4198 HAD MORE SPREAD IN FPS. I STICK WITH THE 5744 ON MY 45/60 AND 45/70

[h c ramrod]

BY THE WAY THE FACTORY ( ACURATE POWDER CO. )  TOLD ME THAT MORE CRIMP ON THE CASE WOULD HELP WITH A CLEANER BURN..........

[Hell-Er High Water]

curdog,

On page 13 of this thread there is a topic titled "Smokeless in '76 clones".

On page 8 of that topic is information that I posted, direct from the Accurate Arms Ballistic Lab Manager, Johan Loubser regarding the properties of 5744 and information regarding the unburnt granules that we find with this powder.  The unburnt granules with this powder is just "The Nature Of The Beast" and doesn't seem to affect accuracy.

I think that this is the post that you were refering to.

Good shooting.

HHW

[Silver_Rings]

I finally bought Lyman Reloading Handbook 49th and based off the load data on page 103 tried the following loads:

These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.

They were fired in a Chappy 45-60 1876 reproduction with 28" barrel.

Brass by Jamison
OAL 2.27
Oregon Trails lazercast 300 gr hard cast rnfp bullet
Winchester standard large rifle primers
temp 60s, alt 6100ft

26.0 gr IMR4198

low  1350
high 1352
1418 fps when I raised the barrel high shifting the powder to the rear before shooting

27.0 gr IMR 4198

low  1348
high 1356
also 1418 fps when I raised the barrel high shifting the powder to the rear before shooting

28.0 gr IMR4198

low  1348
high 1377
1476 fps when I raised the barrel high shifting the powder to the rear before shooting

Played some more with earlier loads

24.4 gr 5744

1267 fps powder settled where it may
low 1334 high 1388 when I raised the barrel high shifting the powder to the rear before shooting

25.0 gr 5744

low 1317 high 1394 fps powder settled where it may
low 1352 high 1373 when I raised the barrel high shifting the powder to the rear before shooting

26.0 gr 5744

low 1361 high 1429 when I raised the barrel high shifting the powder to the rear before shooting

The following 5744 loads were fired a month ago and the powder was not positioned to the rear.

load     velocity low   velocity high
24.4         1267           1290
25.0         1303           1396    strange but this load was faster than 26.0 load
26.0         1316           1350



These are the results using poly fille, everything else the same as above.

22 gr 5744

low 1246
high 1288

23 gr 5744

low 1299
high 1325

24 gr 5744

low 1348
high 1363

25 gr 5744

low 1400
high 1427

The filler increased the velocity, reduced unburned powder and reduced the spread.
None of these loads have not been pressure tested, so use at your own risk.

I find the results are interesting but hard to understand at times.  My IMR 4198 gave higher velocities than in the Lyman manual however I have a 28" barrel vs 22" barrel in manual.  Also I was shooting in 60's temps not teens like manual both of which would effect the velocities.  Both 5744 and IMR4198 showed a good deal of sensitivity to powder position.

Good new is I am having fun experimenting with the loads.  Have fun and play safe.

SR

[Silver_Rings]

Yesterday the weather was nice so I did some more experimenting with different powders.

These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.

They were fired in a Chappy 1876 reproduction with 28" barrel.

Brass by Jamison

300 gr hard cast rnfp bullet

Winchester standard large rifle primers
temp 40s, alt 6100ft

Reloader 7 powder

26.0 grs     low  1150 fps  with poly filler
               high 1158 fps  with poly filler

27.0 grs     low  1355 fps  with poly filler
               high 1471 fps  with poly filler

IMR 3031 powder

27.0 grs     low  1238 fps  with poly filler
               high 1295 fps  with poly filler

28.0 grs     low  1075 fps  no filler
               high 1100 fps  no filler

28.5 grs     low  1058 fps  no filler
               high 1101 fps  no filler


These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.


SR

[Trailrider]

I think I'd try 26.5 gr RE-7 with the poly filter and see how that would do.  Also the 27.0 gr 3031 w/poly filter looks good.  Did you try for accuracy with any of these?

IMR 4198 really needs a filler, as do some of the others.

[Silver_Rings]

Trailrider,  I only had 2 0r 3 rounds for each load for a total of 13 rounds,  10 of the 13 stayed in the black of a 100 yd small bore rifle target at 100 yrds off sand bags. 

This was mostly to give me an idea of what load would be within reason.  I'll do more load and accuracy testing the next time out.

SR

[Silver_Rings]

I got out last week and did some more shooting.

These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.

They were fired in a Chappy 1876 reproduction with 28" barrel.

Brass by Jamison

300 gr hard cast rnfp bullet (This bullet has to be seated deeper and the crimp groove can not be used)

All loads were weighed on an electric scale to the 1/10 of a grain.

Remington standard large rifle primers
temp 60s, alt 6100ft

Reloader 7 powder used in all loads

26.5 grs with poly fill

shot fps

1) 1278
2) 1071
3) 1047
4) 1055
5) 1026
6) 1381
7) 1754
8- 1823
9) 1870

Spread of over 800 fps.  The first 5 rounds I used less filler and it may have shifted forward.  Rounds 7 - 9 had a crimp that caused a slight bulge in the brass.

27.0 grs. NO FILLER

shot fps
1) 1581
2) 1583
3) 1297
4) 1338
5) 1334
6) 1170
7) 1149
8- 1071
9) 1149
10) 1278

Over a 500 fps spread. Crimp the same on all rounds.

27.0 grns. poly fill

shot fps

1) 1363
2) 1332
3) 1386
4) 1326
5) 1397
6) 1222
7) 1326
8- 1334
9) 1349
10) 1352

Over 170 fps spread.  Crimp the same on all rounds.  If the 1222 fps round is dropped then it is about 70 fps spread.

These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.

SR

[Trailrider]

Howdy, again, Pard,
I've never used poly filler, just 2-inch squares of single-ply toilet paper (fold a single perforated sheet in half, then again and cut apart at the folds).  Didn't use it with RE-#7, but did use it with IMR-4198.  Just poke the tissue LIGHTLY into the case with a pencil or 1/4" dowel rounded on the end.  Let the bullet do any compressing of the tissue. 

I also found that 19.0 gr. 2400 with the TP wad behind a 298 gr. cast bullet produced good results in an original M1876 Winchester.

Use at your own risk.  I can assume no responsibility for the above data in guns other than my own (and maybe not then!).

[Silver_Rings]

Well I've been out a few times since April but have no gotten around to posting until now.  Here is the new info.

These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.

They were fired in a Chappy 1876 reproduction with 28" barrel.

Brass by Jamison
OAL 2.27
Colorado Cast Bullets 300 gr hard cast rnfp bullet

Remington standard large rifle primers
alt 6100ft

Powder Acc 5744
load     velocity low   velocity high
27.0         1024           1028    The velocity for this load is much lower than I have gotten before with less powder
26.5         1463           1483    poly filler

Powder IMR 4198
load     velocity low   velocity high
27.5         1383           1460
27.0         1452           1518    poly filler

Powder DUP 3031
load     velocity low   velocity high
32.0         1309           1410    poly filler

Powder Reloader 7
load     velocity low   velocity high
27.1         1361           1413    poly filler.  Good accuracy
   

These loads have not been tested for pressure so use at your own risk.


Silver Rings

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Not much data, but here is Chappies info;

http://www.chaparralarms.com/specs/calibers.htm