1860 Spencer rifle serial # & features help! *** Photo Added ***

[phil s]

Hello SSS members,

I have a spencer rifle 56/56/-cal 52 that has been passed down thru the family to me from my gg/grandfather i have been doing research on him and rifle as best i can but the more i do the more confused i get i hope and hope you can help this is what i know it has the markings spencer rifle co boston mass pat. march 6th 1860 serial # 3613 it has a 6 groove barrel 30" and overall length 48" i've been told it was setup for a bayonet it has the intials G.B. on both sides of the wood butt stock, now what confuses me it has the saddle ring and bar on it which i haven't seen on the rifles only carbines it also has a short wood forearm that is 10" with a endcap of 1/2" and one barrel band with the low serial # i'm thinking it was issued in 83-84 am told that it may have gone to the ordnance dept and possibly reissued to co. k 9th mich. calv in 85 () has anyone seen one like this before

Thanks for your help,

Phil S








                                    (Photos posted by Two Flints)

[Herbert]

the serial no puts it in the early rifle contract,i would say the forstock is modified from original rifle stock the nosecap looks lick the one of the original,the sadle bar is a mistory it dose not apear to be atached lick the carbine slinbar, I hav heard that some of the Wilder Brig rifles were fited with sling bars but have no confermation on this,others may be of help hear,do you know were your ancestor served in the civil wae

[DJ]

It looks like perhaps a Spencer rifle that has had a carbine buttstock substituted for the rifle stock and the forend shortened.  The receiver is definitely a rifle receiver, as it does not have the cutout for the forward portion of the sling ring base on the left side.  The sling ring base also appears to have been shortened.  The barrel length is correct for a rifle, and the nose cap on the shortened fore end looks like a rifle nose cap.  The serial number is correct for a rifle.

Looks like it was made into a sporter and maybe the original buttstock was damaged and replaced.

--DJ

[Arizona Trooper]

I'd agree with Herbert and DJ, your rifle has a lot of post war modifications. The buttstock is from a carbine and the carbine saddle ring bar has been modified to fit. Normally, it attaches to the reciever, but that part has been cut off. You could not carry this rifle on a carbine sling as modified, since the only thing holding the sling ring is the back lockplate screw, which isn't up to the job by itself.

I have seen a couple Wilders rifles with saddle rings added. What they did was screw a coach strap staple into the stock wrist. There are three on the back of a McClellan saddle, and you can still strap on your bedroll with just two. They would use one of the halter leadstrap rings for a sling ring (there are two on the saddle, and you only need one).

Personally, having used both a carbine sling and a rifle sling, I greatly prefer the rifle sling. The only problem is when you are riding through low hanging branches. You have to be careful that your rifle barrel doesn't snag on a branch.  A rifle in a carbine sling would beat your right leg a lot in a canter. The big advantage though, is that you can drop the rifle when on a carbine sling and not loose it.  The Wilders rifles I have see with rings added show wear in the stock indicating that they were used regularly with carbine slings.

Your rifle's serial number is kind of in the break between the Ohio Sharpshooters and Wilder's.

[Drydock]

The 56/56 caliber were sold off after the war, the army kept the newer 56/50s.  Someone cut the forarm down after the war.  Then, when carried in a scabbard on a horse, If the horse decided to take a roll, the stock would break at the wrist.  The most common replacement stock available was the carbine stock.  Cutting off the sling plate gave the lock plate screw something to screw into.  Not all that uncommon.  Nice piece of family history there.

[phil s]

just an update i've been researching the family history on both sides i originaly thought that it had come down thru my fathers side of the family but after talking to my uncle who is in his late 80s or early 90s as far as he could remember from the stories he had heard he wasn't certain, my gg/grandfather had been in co. d 22nd wisc infantry was capture at thompsons station and exchanged and had made the run with sherman to the sea, i then looked at my mothers side of the family and found that my gg/grandfather had been with the 2nd iowa calvary and had been wounded, captured, escaped, and had several horses shot out from under him, he had also made the run to the sea with sherman, my fathers side homesteaded in so. dak. after the war and on my mothers side he went back to iowa and had 14 children which one or more ended up in the same township as my gg/grandfather, i'm leaning more to my mothers side in that he was in the calvary, had horses shot out from under him which could explain the modifications to the rifle, in looking up the 2nd iowa calv it seems that they had the spencers  shortly afer they where avaliable which would explain the low serial # i do have a pic of him  and he had left a diary of his war years but have not located it yet  


                                                        (Photo added by Two Flints)  

[St. George]

Out of curiosity - what Company in the 2d Iowa did he ride with?

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[phil s]

his name is erastus w. bennett and he was according to the the records i've found listed under unassigned recruits

[St. George]

My GG-Grandfather rode as a Corporal with Company F of the 2d Iowa Volunteer Cavalry.

You can find out all sorts of stuff by contacting the Iowa State Historical Society in Des Moines, as they have the Muster Rolls and many of the Supply records.

When he was first issued his weapons - the unit had Model 1859 Sharps Carbines and .36 Remingtons.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!