Historical identification of a sharps Carbine IAB .

[tom]

Howdy all,

I bought a short time ago this 45/70 SHARPS carbine by the Italian manufacturer IAB.

I practise in France western and shooting  reenactment  and I  would like to say that this rifle is the reproduction of an original  model,  but after a few hours of research on Internet, I do not find  any sharps original which is like this Italian copy.

Do you think that this one could have existed for the  civil market in conversion or special order or unfortunately that IAB  invented this model ? 

Is somebody give more information on mark IAB, catalogue sales, serial numbers/years of production, etc......

thank you by advance .

Alan

[MJN77]

Hello Sir,
   I am no expert on buffalo rifles, but I do know a little about military guns so I'll try to help you. While not a 100% correct copy, it does look alot like an 1863 sharps carbine that was converted to metallic cartridge. The original caliber would have been .50-70. After the American Civil War, this type of rifle was very popular with pioneers moving west. It would've been used for everything from hunting to defending against indians. Those rifles were cheap to buy and you could get ammunition from any military fort. If I am wrong someone else will speak up. I hope this helps.
                                                                              Marshall

[Short Knife Johnson]

That's pretty much right.  Those IABs are more of an 1863 conversion... more or less.  It has the 1863 hammer, and the half cock is waaaay back.  That mechanism was set up to remove the percussion cap after firing.  A friend of mine has one that some (insert expletive here) hogged out to .45-120 from a .45-70.  It's not a fun thing to shot, and he is intending on screwing a new barrel onto it.

[Kent Shootwell]

Alan, What you have is a Sharps STYLED carbine. The lock plate is incorrect as well as the lever. The rear sight is incorrectly mounted to the rear of the barrel and the wood isn't shaped very well. The ones I've handled didn't work well and the lever spring is a coil spring rather then the flat one that controls the position of the breech block. As the other fellows said it's meant to be of the 1859/1863 carbine converted to cartrigde that were issued to troops. "Custers troops had them befor being issued Springfields" So for reenactments you're close enought for 1867-1873 at least. By the way 31098 carbines were converted by The Sharps Rifle company, but I can't say anything about the new Italian copys production.

[tom]

thank you for your answers, it is exact that this rifle  resembles to the model 1863 .

The lock plate is incorrect, sure, you want certainly to speak about the higher part of the lock plate  behind the hammer, (the caps mechanism)......?

I corrected and replaced  the rear sight in a good position.
I saw that VTI gunparts sell parts spare for this mark IAB but the  overseas postage rates  are too significant, much more than for a  simple sending by USPS.
http://www.vtigunparts.com/store/shopdisplayproducts.asp?id=52&cat=IAB+%28Pedretti%29+Sharps
May be, I could by a correct and complete Guard Plate BP with the trigger lock, I dont know if the lever shoulb be different of mine, what do you think about this ?


the only historical thing is that mark IAB is not sold any  more if it is true and it is a small sympatic rifle to preserve. 

Excuse me  to speak not very well English, it is difficult for  me ..........

Hello to all from France.

alain

[MJN77]

Hello sir,
           You are correct about the lock plate being too slanted. But, the 1863 was not as tall as a 1859 carbine, and I have seen at least 2 original sharps carbines that had lock plates that really looked like the one on your carbine. I do not know if they were replacement lock plates or not but they were pretty close to yours. Hope that helps a little.
                                                                  Marshall

[Kent Shootwell]

Your english is better then my french as I know only three or four words!
I wouldn't worry about the lever but if you wanted to add a lever latch I'd suggest you make one and attach it as a nonworking piece for the look of it. Does your carbine have the sling ring and bar mounted on the left side? The lock plate did have the high part that had the self priming device built in. Those interanl parts were removed when the rifles were converted to cartridge. No easy fix for it not being there. Some rifles converted for sporting use did have the lock plate cut down as on yours.
Here is photo of a Shiloh Sharps percussion rifle "modern made" for a view of the lever latch and lock contour.

[tom]

For my english, thank's to Systran

Yes, my carbine have the sling ring and bar mounted on the left side.
To make a factice trigger lock is one possiblility but a system which functions would be better, I think the level is the same, the guard plate BP too with just an opening for the trigger lock, I need one trigger lock and one trigger lock spring and little work by a friend but I dont know where I should get this parts for a correct price.
This carbine was not expensive for me and I bought it for using 45/70 caliber, I had in the past  one trapdoor carbine.

Usually I use only american antiques guns, winchesters 73, SRC and rifle,, spencer, colt lightning, S ans W old model, baby russian, double derringer, etc....

I think that if I want to remain in the civil field with this  carbine, all is not bad because many assemblies and reassemblies were  done with various parts by various gunsmiths of the border  for unfortunate pioneers . 

Thank for your Shiloh Sharps percussion pic.

[tom]

it is possible to find these parts from ARMI sport for the 1863 sharps rifle, is somebody know where I can order them elsewhere than VTI gunparts ?

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Tom, I wish I could help.  The only way to find out if the parts may interchange is to find someone with an Armi Sport gun and compare yours to theirs.  (Or, get the factory part drawings ... but I doubt that's possible.)

As for your English ... BRAVO!  Your English is totally better than MOST of us's French, and MUCH better than some Americans I know!

[tom]

Thank you very much to you, Sure, I should like to better speak english.
I can't speak really person to person...........

Yes, I see the next week a friend who use one pedersoli carbine.........

for you, a pic of me here in France with one of my antique guns, 44/40 colt lightning.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Great photo, Tom!

And it's nice to see your faithful friend with you!

I don't know how close the Pedersoli rifles and the Armi Sorts are.  But comparing them, part-to-part will give you an idea of what parts may interchange or can be modified to work.  Bonne chance!