Original Open Top

[edward austin cable]

Had a question about and original Open Top revolver. The late model with the army grip more specifically...what was the original caliber offering for that revolver?
Cable

[Pettifogger]

You need to be a little more specific.  You talking about C&B, a conversion or a 72?

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

As far as I can see from a quick review of R. Bruce McDowell's book, All 1860 Army Richards, and Richard - Masons were in .44 Martin centerfire.  This is the copper cartridge designed by the government for army use which later became .44 Colt.  It had the heeled bullet to fit the original percussion barrel measurements. Martin was the designer of the specific primer system employed in the early cartridges.  Later cases were drawn of brass with primers as we know them now.

1851 and 1861 Navy model conversions were in either .38 rimfire or centerfire, depending on when they were made, and for whom. In its later form this cartridge became known as .38 Long Colt. Both rf and cf versions used a heeled bullet to fit percussion barrel dimensions.

Large frame 1871-1872 Open Top revolvers were all in .44 rimfire.  The cartridge specifically is the .44 Stetson version of the .44 Henry using a swaged bullet.  Some were later re-converted to .44-40.

After release, many local modifications were carried out, and factory and local-gunsmith conversions are known.

This is only a snippet of info from a very complex topic, much of which has been discussed at length elsewhere.

[edward austin cable]

I was speaking about the 72 model. I assumed they were in the .44 caliber arena, thank you Sir Charles for the more exact answer. I had read other threads on here about my exact question but when I went to look for them last night I could not find them. Thanks again gentlemen for the help.
Cable

[Fox Creek Kid]

As far as I can see from a quick review of R. Bruce McDowell's book, All 1860 Army Richards, and Richard - Masons were in .44 Martin centerfire.  This is the copper cartridge designed by the government for army use which later became .44 Colt.  It had the heeled bullet to fit the original percussion barrel measurements. Martin was the designer of the specific primer system employed in the early cartridges.  Later cases were drawn of brass with primers as we know them now...

Large frame 1871-1872 Open Top revolvers were all in .44 rimfire.  The cartridge specifically is the .44 Stetson version of the .44 Henry using a swaged bullet.  Some were later re-converted to .44-40.

After release, many local modifications were carried out, and factory and local-gunsmith conversions are known.

This is only a snippet of info from a very complex topic, much of which has been discussed at length elsewhere.

Actually, not all the the 1st & 2nd Model Richards were in .44 Martin as it had a larger diameter case body than the civilian .44 Colt. Also, some of the very first ´72 OT´s were in .44 Russian (two are pictured in the McDowell book). As far as any ¨conversion¨done on a ´72 OT it had to have been done by a backwoods gunsmith and not the factory, e.g., 44-40. Colt did not chamber a revolver in 44-40 until late 1877.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

FCK;  I musta skipped over the .44 Russian in the OT, but it make a lot more sense than .44 Stetson/Henry.

.44-40 in the OT!  I agree that it must have been gunsmith conversions.  I could never understand the logic behind this one.

[Joe Lansing]

    Wouldn't a 44-40 conversion mean an undersize bullet for that barrel?

                                                   J.L.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Joe;  Funny thing is that barrel diameter was about the only factor that made sense.  barrel diameters for .44 Henry & .44 WCF were quite close.

[Jake MacReedy]

According to McDowell, a few early Open Tops were chambered in .44 Russian centerfire as well.  Two of them are pictured on page 294 of his book.  Both are early revolvers with the Navy-size grip.

Jake