Boy did I get a cool find on E-bay!

Pitspitr · October 30, 2009, 10:22:17 PM

Boy did I get a cool find on E-bay! It's a .pdf copy of the 1889 US Army's marksmanship manual, Small Arms Firing Regulations by Blunt. It contains all the original plates.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=350269622546

Charles Isaac · October 30, 2009, 11:25:06 PM

Outstanding job Sir!

I like the buyers description where he says the chances of buying an original are none.

You will have to let everyone know if this book gives you more of an edge!

Pitspitr · October 31, 2009, 08:33:21 AM

Well, I've already read it and I did pick up a few pointers, but I think even if I could memorize it, it wouldn't get me up there with you , Drydock or Ned Neiderlander.

I already had a hard cover reprint of the manual, but I thought that having it on CD might be nice if I ever want to post pictures (such as the one below) from it or copy and paste directions from it.

River City John · October 31, 2009, 10:50:27 AM

So Colonel, have you priced out the cost to replicate these in steel?

If in steel I would think only the prone would be manageable. The kneeling, at 42" high and 25" at the widest, would be dang heavy to muscle around a range. You'd need a forklift to maneuver a full-size standing position target.

You could effectively simulate all three by manufacturing only the prone targets in steel and then adjusting the relative height of the target stands to match the heights of the other two larger targets.

But how cool if you had full size examples of all three in sufficient quantities to set up several stages.

RCJ

Pitspitr · October 31, 2009, 01:06:51 PM

Yes I realize that there isn't a way I will be able to afford them in full size. I'm looking at scaling them down to the typical range we use. Weight of them in full size is another factor that would probably prevent using them in full size. Most likely the standing target would be scaled down to about %50 or about 36 in (maybe smaller) kneeling will likely be the most useable one of the 3 targets but it will need to be scaled down as well. By properly scaling a target you can effectively simulate a target at a much greater distance.

Charles Isaac · November 01, 2009, 01:37:28 PM

Thanks Col. for posting those targets!

I am making a reusable template so that I can convert the modern echo silhouettes I have into these targets by tracing the outline of the older style onto the newer and cutting off the excess.

Ned Neiderlander had talked to me at the Grand Muster about possibly implementing a course of fire where the shooter walks down a trail or lane and engages groups of targets as they appear. This sounds like so much fun, and being a Private, I am bypassing all the politics (that's what privates do when they can) and have already started cutting a trail through the swamp woods and will place groups of these targets along the way. They will not only be engaged with rifles, but also handguns in honor of the quick implementation of the "Little Rule" and Col. Little.

The Battle of South Mills was fought on this very ground in 1862. Confederates won that one and I can spray the targets gray because of Col Little and the "Little Rule" and his frequent requests for certain color targets.

Pitspitr · November 01, 2009, 02:53:34 PM

Sounds as though we may have to visit North Carolina for a GM someday!

Drydock · November 01, 2009, 06:02:46 PM

I'm thinking we need to promote this man . . .

Niederlander · November 01, 2009, 08:55:34 PM

Quote from: Charles Isaac on November 01, 2009, 01:37:28 PM
Thanks Col. for posting those targets!

I am making a reusable template so that I can convert the modern echo silhouettes I have into these targets by tracing the outline of the older style onto the newer and cutting off the excess.

Ned Neiderlander had talked to me at the Grand Muster about possibly implementing a course of fire where the shooter walks down a trail or lane and engages groups of targets as they appear. This sounds like so much fun, and being a Private, I am bypassing all the politics (that's what privates do when they can) and have already started cutting a trail through the swamp woods and will place groups of these targets along the way. They will not only be engaged with rifles, but also handguns in honor of the quick implementation of the "Little Rule" and Col. Little.

The Battle of South Mills was fought on this very ground in 1862. Confederates won that one and I can spray the targets gray because of Col Little and the "Little Rule" and his frequent requests for certain color targets.

I'm going to be experimenting with that as soon as the range dries out enough for me to get out there. I'll let you know how it goes. I've got some ideas about using the Blunt skirmish targets, as well as popper targets, and probably an actual bayonet dummy as well. I may have to use some cardboard targets for the really close range stuff. It should be cool!

Charles Isaac · November 01, 2009, 10:09:33 PM

Sounds like your getting this ball rolling Ned!

I know paper doesn't have the instant gratification of the "clang" when hit, but they are economical, easy to handle and the shot holes are easily pasted up with pieces of masking tape. It will just take a little more help from the shooters to get the targets scored and repaired quickly when conducting a match.

I am going to set the targets at about 25-50 yards from the firing points and have thought of a lot of different scenarios for engagement.

One I have thought of is to engage the targets with the rifle, then close the distance to about half, engage a second time with the rifle, then draw the pistol and engage a third time. I will try some one handed firing with the pistol while the rifle is retained in the non firing hand and of course some hip fired pistol shots. Next is movement back to the main lane and movement continues to the next engagement area.

These targets are historically accurate and you could even require headshots for some of the strings -a really good thing about using paper!

Charles Isaac · November 10, 2009, 12:35:29 PM

The WWII practice target was very similar. Seems this type target was around for quite a while!

Pitspitr · November 15, 2009, 02:53:34 PM

For those of you who enjoy reading archaic military manuals I found a downloadable .pdf of Upton's Infantry Tactics at:

http://books.google.com/books?id=iaQNAAAAYAAJ&dq=upton's+infantry+tactics&printsec=frontcover&source=bl&ots=yAshMyGAQs&sig=91H-0U6X-UnqCtWLlVb8RyPg5mo&hl=en&ei=KGYAS-iZLdGrngfG6KkS&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4&ved=0CBgQ6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=upton's%20infantry%20tactics&f=false

Niederlander · November 15, 2009, 10:27:06 PM

Quote from: Charles Isaac on November 10, 2009, 12:35:29 PM
The WWII practice target was very similar. Seems this type target was around for quite a while!

Charles,
That target may have been from the Great War. I believe a friend of mine has a copy of the training manual those came with. I'll try to check on that tomorrow.

Charles Isaac · November 15, 2009, 11:25:43 PM

Thanks Ned!

I'm interested to find out the story behind these.

Texas Lawdog · November 16, 2009, 12:07:52 PM

Cool looking Target! I'm curious about it's origin too.

Niederlander · November 17, 2009, 05:08:45 PM

He's looking for the manual today, so hopefully I'll have some more info in the next couple of days!

Pitspitr · March 28, 2010, 08:35:57 AM

I found a cheaper source of the Blunt's manual .pdf. It's $2.99 for a download.

http://www.militarymart.com/store/Firing-Regulations-for-Small-Arms-for-the-United-States-Army-1889.html

EDIT: I found it cheaper yet! It's online!

http://www.scribd.com/doc/28619146/Small-Arms-Firing-Regulations-Blunt-1889