Interesting Spencer Owned by New member **Rhatman1**

[Two Flints]

New SSS member Rhatman1 is looking for information on the history of his Spencer Carbine appearing below from members of the SSS posse.  Please offer your comments in addition what I have presented below.

[This carbine has a Stabler cut-off switch.  It was probably sent to the Federal Ordinance for repair? or modification?? and then shipped out west with a trooper of the 14th PA Cavalry, sent to Fort Leavenworth and Fort Laramie under the command of Major-General Grenville M. Dodge. The cavalry units under Dodge were "veteran's from Sheridan's and Sherman's armies and carried Spencer rifles" (June 1865).

Additional notes pertaining to the 14th PA Cavalry Unit: "On April 18th 1865, Lee in the meantime having surrendered, the command proceeded to Millwood, where Moseby was met, and terms of his surrender were settled. On April 20th, the regiment was ordered to Washington, and for nearly two months was encamped in the neighborhood of the city, participating, in the meantime, in the grand review of the national armies.

On the 11th of June, it was ordered to Louisville, Kentucky, but while on the way, its destination was changed to Fort Leavenworth, Kansas. Soon after its arrival at its destination, it was consolidated into a battalion of six companies, all surplus officers being mustered out. Company A, of the new command, under Captain Henry N. Harrison, was detailed as escort to General Dodge, commanding the department, and accompanied him on a tour of inspection, which extended to the Gunpowder River.

On the 24th of August, the companies remaining at the Fort were mustered out of service, and returned in a body to Pittsburg, where they were disbanded. Company A was mustered out on November 2d, soon after the return from its tour".

Two really interesting books that deal with US Military Units out west are - Tending the Talking Wire (1863-18660, edited by William E. Unrau & Guarding the Overland Trails by Robert Huhn Jones.]  Two Flints

On a more personal note, I would like to see more photos of the case as shown in the photos, inside and out, provided it is a 'period" gun case, and any marks or notations it may have to date it properly.  Two Flints

















                                                   
                                                  (Photos posted by Two Flints)

[Herbert]

I can not make out what is stamped on the top of the butstock ,a little recerch would tell were this troop was stacioned around 1866 when this carbine would have been isued,it seems to have seen very little youse, posibly put into stores as a replacment and sold as surplace years later or refurbed by springfield ,check the but stock for inspectors mark,this carbine was excepded by the arm in augest 1865 and put into stores befor being isued and was a newly made modle 1865 so if it was refinished it was not done till 1868or after

[Arizona Trooper]

Interesting piece. M-1865 serial numbers in the 17K range would have been delivered well after the war was over (summer of '65). Only a couple hundred M-1865s had been recieved by April, and they most likely hadn't made it to the field by the time that Lee surrendered. This carbine was probably issued when the 14th reached Levenworth. They would have reequipped at that point. When the men mustered out, they had the option of buying their arms and equipment. Your Spencer was probably bought by a trooper leaving the service, who then made the case and took really good care of it.

I doubt very much that this one was ever rebuilt. If it was, there would be a stamp in the buttstock at the back of the saddle ring plate with fancy script ESA initials in an oval. Erskin S Allin was the Springfield master armorer and his stamp (cartouche) appears on all Springfield rebuilt Spencers. About half of the M-1865 contract was delivered with Stabler's magazine cutoff.

Take care of that Spencer. It's a beauty.

[Herbert]

somthing does not ad up for this carbine to be isued to the 14th PA,the first 1865s were isued in the sumer of 1865 to the 6th US cavalary at this time 1865 were being kept for the regulars because of suply problems with amunition ,the 6th was isued the wrong amunition when they got there 1865s,troops with spencers at this time were armed with wartime 1860s,it was not till1866 that widspread isue of the new 1865s this was done when the new7th 8th 9th &10th regiments were formed,i can find no record of 1865s being isued to voliteer units as was done in the civil war,somone else might have more infor mation on this

[rhatman1]

Thanks for the input. I am interested in any information that I can find or give. Most of the information I have has been shared already. Across the top of the butt using a strong light and a magnifying glass it says "L" Troop with the guotation Marks around the letter L. Then it say 1st cavalry the st, are hard to see but again when using the light and the magnifing glass you can still make it out. This gun belonged to my father in-law and I am not sure how it came into his possession. My wife thinks that he bought this gun from a friend of his while in his teens living in Brookville Oh. She also thinks that he made the case because he was into wood working.
At this time the gun is in our possession and I hope to keep it but it may have to be sold to settle his estate. Depends on the estmated value. My father in-law passed this year he had owned the gun since the mid to early fortys.   

[Arizona Trooper]

The 1st marking changes things. I was assuming (bad idea!) that it said 14th P since there was a reference to that unit. It's probably not the 1st US Cav. The regular army rarely marked arms. Most of the marked US Army issued carbines I have seen come from the 10th Cav. in the early 1870s. More often arms are marked with a post or fort name. The 1st could be a territorial unit (Colorado was big on this), or a state guard unit in the 1870s. In the condition indicated by the photos, I'd estimate it at $2500-3500 retail. Get a professional appraisal, in writing, in person, if you are settling an estate. It will cost a couple hundred bucks, but you should be able to charge the estate. You don't want someone coming back later and claim that the appraisal was no good. The internet value places are rough guesses at best, and I wonder about a lot of them. 

[rhatman1]

We are located in East Tennessee do you by chance know of anyone in the area that would do a trust worthy appraisal it would be worth it to me and the wife to make sure that all is correct.

[Herbert]

if it was stamped L troop 2nd Cavalery it can be pined down to fort Kearny september 27,1866 .The records i have show the 1st armed with 683 Sharps &84 Maynard carbines in  June 1867 but in decmber 1870 records show 17 Sharps & 1035 Spencer carbines by 1871 the 1868 50-70 Sharps was begining to be the preferd carbine in the cavalery and by the 6th 1873 the 1st had only 26 spencers on hand,the 1st saw action in northen california in the Modac war late 72 early 73 & eliments of the 1st also served in Crooks 72-73 campaign against the Apaches and Yavapais in Arizona