Need bullet or mold for the original Spencer Rifle

[Four Sixes]

Hello,

I need help in finding the right bullet for my original Spencer rifle. The barrel diameter measured 0.535" to 0.536". The bullet that I used for my 56-50 Armi Sport rifle is too small. It falls right through the barrel.

Can anyone tell me what size of the bullet I should use or where I could get a correct size mold? Can I paper patch my 56-50 bullet as a stop gap measure? Will it affect accuracy?

I have installed the S&S center fire block already. It was pretty easy except I have to fill in the small gap where the upper block join the lever with the screw. The person filled off too muc material and in a angle which causes binding of the upper block to the receiver. Once it was corrected and with some lithium grease, it cycle flawlessly

If anyone have some bullets that I could try in my original spencer rifle, I am willing to pay for the shipping cost. Please PM me. Thanks

4-Sixes

[French Jack]

You will probably need a .520 diameter bullet for the original bore.  Lyman, Rapine, NEI, all make moulds that will fill the bill.  For starters, I would probably get one in the proper diameter from NEI.  You can also get a mould from Romano Rifles.  The precast and lubed bullets are available from Buffalo Arms.  You can get a few to try that way.

[Herbert]

it sounds lick you have a 56-56 rapine bullet mould makes the proper size heal bassed mould for this cartrige

[Four Sixes]

Slug the barrel today and the inside diameter (groove to groove) is 0.536"...next step is to find the proper mold.
My next question is once I get the mold to cast some bullets...can I use my 56-50 seating die to seat the bullet? or do I need a completely different set of dies?

Thanks.

4-Sixes

[French Jack]

Your dies may or may not work.  You will have to try and see if they can handle expanding the case mouth that large, and if they will accept and seat the bullet and crimp it properly.  I would suggest you talk to the fellows at Buffalo Arms and see if they can give you some advice or info on the different approaches.

[Herbert]

the 56-56 spencer bullet is a heal based bullet ,you will have to get proper 56-56 cases or make them up from 50-70 brass ,for most original 56-56 spencers the starline brass rim diameter is to small for the blade extractor to catch the rim,CH makes dies for the 56-56 the only mould i know that works is the rapine mould ,a proper size bullet without a heal will not fit in the cass

[Bead Swinger]

With those dimensions, I'm guessing you're shooting an M1860, or one with an 1860 barrel on it. The ammo you want is 56-56.
The best mold is the Rapine 535380? (its 535xxx) which is a great mold - 'used to shoot one quite often.
The Buffalo-Arms 56-56 brass to go with it is pricey, but will work very well - the Starline 56-60 brass probably won't extract properly, and is too long for the heeled bullet wanted for th 56-56.

There is a pretty good FAQ on shooting originals - from what you mentioned, just make sure you get a flattened follower - the originals were rounded over, and run a higher risk (that is not worth taking) of a magazine ignition . Originals are the best to shoot - very smooth. Somewhere on cascity I've a video of me shooting my original rifle before I sold it.

I'd suggest you try either buffalo arms (thy might back-order it for you) or call Rapine directly about getting the 535380 mold. He probably has one in stock, or can crank one out quickly.  Definitely a quality product.

Let us know how it goes shootin'!

[Trailrider]

Slug the barrel today and the inside diameter (groove to groove) is 0.536"...next step is to find the proper mold.
My next question is once I get the mold to cast some bullets...can I use my 56-50 seating die to seat the bullet? or do I need a completely different set of dies?

Thanks.

4-Sixes

Howdy, Pard,
Your dimension of 0.536" groove diameter is correct for the muzzle end of the original M1860 Spencer Carbine barrel.  I'll bet, however, that if you make a chamber cast, using CerroSafe (NEVER, EVER USE LEAD TO MAKE A CHAMBER CAST!!!), and catch the rifling just ahead of the chamber, you find the grooves running about  0.545!  Why?  Because all the M1860's I've checked have tapered rifling!

No matter!  A 0.535" diameter bullet will work fine...BUT...as others have posted, the originals were "heel" bullets, with a hard lube on the outside of the exposed portion of the slug, a la a .22rf.  Rapine makes such a mould, as was posted.  I haven't used that one, and heel bullets in general can be a pain to load and get them to stay in the case without rolling a crimp on the case mouth after seating.  Regular crimping dies won't do a good job unless the case wall is pretty thick at the mouth.

Personally, I used the Lyman 533486AX mould (no longer produced, unfortunately), which is a hollow-based bullet.  These cast out about .535" depending on the alloy mix.  They are a straight-sided slug, with a large meplat (bullet nose flat), which is AN ABSOLUTE MUST WITH CENTERFIRE ROUNDS IN THE MAGAZINE!  I formed my brass (years ago) from Dixie Gun Works .50-70 brass, cut short, and then reamed with a special reamer I had made up.  The cases were annealled by sitting them in water half-way up the side of the case, and then heated with a propane torch until the color changed, and then immediately tipped over in the water to quench in the anneal.  I bought my dies from RCBS, but that was before CH came out with less expensive ones.

One more VITAL tip:  BE SURE YOU INSTALL A FLAT-NOSE MAGAZINE FOLLOWER (S&S SELLS ONE)!  A magazine explosion right next to your headbone could ruin your whole day!    Be sure to have your Spencer inspected by someone who knows what to look for, and is a trained gunsmith familiar with the Spencer.  These are 150 year-old guns and the metal could have deteriorated over time!  While I have been known to shoot smokeless powder in mine, I'd stay with BLACK POWDER ONLY at this point in history!

If you haven't set up the firing pin in the S&S breechblock, I'd buy a couple of extras and carefully file the striker end to work as an inertia-type firing pin, i.e., the firing pin doesn't touch the primer with the hammer fully down, but does impart enough impact to reliably set off the primers!

Ride careful, Pard!

[Herbert]

good point on bullet size rapine makes both .546 &.535 size bullets as trailrider sugests do a chamber cast to get the proper size for the bullet it will pay off in acuracy