fire formed case ?

[Warren T Upp]

evenin! i am a happy boy today, got to fire my new shiloh with some home made bp loads for the first time sun!! YEE HAA! what a blast!! i do have some ?'s tho, i loaded new brass i ran thru the die before loading, seemed like the most 2f i could cram in with a postell ws 65 grain weighed. if i don't resize will the fire formed case hold more? or is that about it? it actually fired the 63 grain loads a little better, but we are just gettin' ta know each other, so patience is needed i know. only shot a 100 yds with strong wind from 1 to 3 o'clock, but still had 5 in about 3-4" group. also, she seemed to shoot better if i only wiped every 3 or 4 shots, did'nt seem to like every shot, make sense? appreciate all the expierence here, so all info welcome! thanx for time......warren t upp

[drcook]

I have a couple questions, then we can get down answering yours:

First of all, what brand and granulation of blackpowder are you using ?

2nd.  Are you using a drop tube ?

3rd. What brand of brass are you using ?

4th. If you are not using Swiss, are you using a compression plug to compress the powder ?

5th. Are you using an over powder wad ? If so, what composition and thickness (ie: fiber, LDPE .060
etc)

After you answer these, we can go from there.

Dave

[Mossyrock]

Caliber might be helpful, too...   

[drcook]

I think it probably is the Shiloh in 45-70 he spoke about getting a short time ago. I could be wrong,
but I think it is.

But yes, what chambering is very important

dc

[Warren T Upp]

sorry i did'nt give enough info, rushed myself. yes it is the shiloh 45-70 i recently got. loading goex 2f in starline cases. have a compressin plug but not real sure or confident with it yet, using a homemade 26" droptube. thanx for any help, really enjoy all the info i have received from reading all yur posts & answers. ....Warren T Upp. p.s. wads: paper over primer, dry fiber over powder, believe they are .30's

[drcook]

Here goes:

1. Get one of the primer pocket deburrers and slightly (SLIGHTLY) deburr and chamfer
the inside of the primer pocket

2. you should be able to get up to 72 gr of powder in a 45-70 case. I use WW's so I can get 72.
You should be able to get 68 to 70 easily. I shoot 72 gr Goex 2F under a 540 gr PJ Creedmore bullet

you want the end result of the drop tubed powder about .250 to .300 (1/4 to 5/16) from the case
mouth

3. here is how to set your compression to the right depth

** take a FL sized case that has had the expander plug run into it and using a dremel tool slitter, cut
a slit lengthwise along 1 side. you may have to cut 2 opposing slits. insert a bullet about half way, push
the bullet into the chamber, then gently extract. the bullet should then be a the max OAL and show
the seating depth. there are lots of ways to determine this.

myself I use a 3/8" x 4' dowel rod with 2 nylon bushings that I drilled and tapped for a tighten screw.
with the breech closed, insert dowel and hold against breech. bring the bushings down and hold tight
against the muzzle. tighten screw on OUTERMOST one. the insert a bullet and have someone help you
hold the bullet up to where it stops. (I use the eraser end of a pencil) the insert dowel till it touches
the bullet. take the innermost bushing back against the muzzle and tighten it. the distance in between
the bushings is the OAL of the cartridge. I back mine off about .010 then. **

a. measure the overall length of the case  - call this A
b. measure the length of the bullet            call this B
c. A + B = combined length, call this C
d. OAL length = call this D
e. C - D = compression depth WITHOUT any wads, call this E
f. E + wad(s) thickness then becomes your compression depth, call this F

you can double check bullet lenght then by A - F + B should equal your OAL (over all lenth)

once you drop tube the powder, you can screw the compression plug down and fell it touch.
give it a turn or 2. lock and compress your powder. measure using a depth mic or the stem side of
a dial caliper. then you can work your way down a little at a time, or go buy a cheap Chinese
0-1 dial indicator and magnetic base from Harbor Freight and put the dial indicator
(set to middle of travel) on top the compression plug. it is then easy to go right to the desired depth

using this method, I can control my measurements to within .001 or .002 of an inch

get a Redding Competition seater die

http://www.buffaloarms.com/browse.cfm/4,2774.html

and then you can control your bullet seating depth very easily. I set mine right down on the wads
without any nose deformation or air space left

in my opinion WEIGH EVERY CHARGE, if you get a Belding & Mull powder measure off eBay.
or a (someone help me here, a Lyman 55 ?) it will help speed up loading. let me know if you want to
discuss B&M measures more

does this make sense ?

this is the same technique I used to load my 45-110 ammo and to get out my rubber arm and
wrench my shoulder patting myself on the back, placed 9th overall out of 109'ish people at Alliance
Neb in the 1000 yd match, so it works and works pretty well. it is not a good thing to brag (helps the
ego everyonce in a while) but I did want you to know I practice what I preach and that the results
are there

dave
 
     

[drcook]

Also you should anneal that Starline brass. It is harder than woodpecker lips. Over on the Starline site is
a discussion about annealing their brass. I just bought 45-70 Starline but am not using it. I do shoot
it on all my other guns. My 45-90 wouldn't hold a 2x2 group without annealing (that is 2 ft x 2ft) at
200 yds.

dave

[Warren T Upp]

Wow! thanx for all the great advise, i'm gonna give er a try and i'll let ya know results. great info here from great people, just the way it should be, but is'nt so much of the time these days! won't be able to boom off anymore for coupla weeks, but will advise when i do. WTU out