Balistol Mix Whats Best

hellgate · October 06, 2009, 04:23:35 PM

"Our military chose Ballistol over all others, then went to war with the country where it was made. Ballistol is good stuff and I think it's made on this side of the pond now.

DD-DLoS"

I've got a can of GI bore cleaner from WW2 and it sure doesn't look or smell like Ballistol. I have to respectfully disagree. The GI stuff is brown and smells WORSE but was great for getting rid of corrosive priming.

Ranch 13 · October 06, 2009, 05:10:11 PM

Quote from: Pitmaster on October 06, 2009, 02:02:01 PM
Will pork fat work as well as beef? I've got a couple gallons of lard. Some of it is even the leaf lard.

I wasn't being flippant. I wasn't sure what you meant by certain terms particularly sweet oil. NOOB is a new person.

Beef and pork will both go rancid if left unrefrigerated any length of time.
Sheep and bear tallow will last much longer and are greasier. The best tallow from any of the animals comes from the kidney fat.

Noz · October 06, 2009, 05:44:00 PM

Be aware that if you should buy vegetable shortening or lard to use as a lube that some of it is prepared with salt for flavoring. Not good to wrap your guns in salt!

Dick Dastardly · October 06, 2009, 05:46:16 PM

Um Hellgate,

When we went to war with the Germans we lost our Ballistol supply. Of course your ugly smelling stuff is GI correct, but it's not the first choice. Our military reviewed and tested and then chose Ballistol. Then, we went to war with the country that supplied it and naturally, we lost our supply. Since then, we used whatever was the second choice.

So, as you sniff the second choice stuff, can you truly say it smells better than Ballistol???

Anyway, I use Ballistol and it works well with both Holy Black and heathen fad smokeyless stuff.

Um, it works. Don't try to talk me out of it.. . .

DD-DLoS

Ranch 13 · October 06, 2009, 05:55:12 PM

World may be coming to an end here.......

But Dastardly is right, about the ballistol anways

U becha water will shove bp fouling out the bore. Won't even touch leading, and you still need to protect the bore with something. Ballistol will get the lead, and will protect the bore after the soap and water have had their turn.

James Hunt · October 06, 2009, 08:25:26 PM

Concerning the need for a product that will remove lead. I am no expert, decidedly un-expert in that all my information is anecdotal, but I have never, ever seen leading in any blackpowder firearm I have used, ever.

I have caused it in my 1911 but never in any BP weapon I own. From long rifles to Winchester 94 using a .38-55 with BP it has never occurred. And, many of those guns were originals. In cartridge guns I have used everything from 12 grains of 3f in an circa 1874 .38cf open top turned round barrel to 105 grains of 1f in a Shiloh Sharps 45 2 7/8, no leading. The two consistent things I use are soft lead - never harder than 20-1 and in some instances pure lead, and liberal swabbing of the bore with sheep tallow (no beeswax which does nothing anyway).

My thoughts are leading is caused by hard lead going fast usually in front of smokeless. I bought a circa 1879 trapdoor carbine that had a pretty leaded bore that took me forever to clean out, but when I used correct bullets and cleaning it has never leaded for me. I think some yahoo was shooting hard lead bullets, maybe with smokeless and using petroleum products to clean with.

So, in my humble and certainly not expert opinion, if you are having leading issues with BP firearms you are doing something wrong that should be fixed.

Regarding different tallow products, see Ranch 13's comments. Historically, in the 18th century bear fat was used and was considered superior. 90 years later buffalo hunters had good luck rendering buffalo fat. Because sheep tallow is historical and cheap I use it.

Not meaning to kick anyone's preferences in the a%$ at all, I enjoy the 18th and 19th century historical and reenactment stuff which makes the use of Ballistol incorrect. And yes in the beginning I started with a "Hawken gun", dressed like Jeremiah Johnson, cooked on blue granite ware, and tried most of the products out there including Ballistol. Moving in the direction of authenticity I was surprised to realize that what they used was every bit as good as what is manufactured today.

Please don't interpret my post as argumentative, as I said before in the context of life there are far more issues of consequence.

Ranch 13 · October 06, 2009, 10:15:07 PM

JH wet a patch good with pure gum spirits of turpentine. Run it thru the barrel of any of you lead shooters. You may find that the never seen lead thing might need some revisiin

hellgate · October 06, 2009, 11:16:29 PM

Ranch 13,
I have a bottle of gum spirits of turpentine sitting in my shop that my wife bought for whatever reason. Are you saying that it is a good BP gun cleaner and/or de-lead solvent? Just curious about its utility.

James Hunt · October 07, 2009, 07:41:58 AM

Ranch 13 - not mocking your suggestion or doubting it. I get your point, but non-observable lead left behind on a near molecular level and not adhereing to the steel does not sound like a limiting problem to me. I doubt my serum lead levels are 0 - don't wory about what you don't have to worry about. Regards, Jim

Ranch 13 · October 07, 2009, 08:37:18 AM

Hell Gate that turpentine is the dangdest lead remover I've ever seen. Lots of folk in the bpcr circles were going on about it. I tried it, and by golly I got lead slivers on a patch from a barrel that couldn't possibly have lead left in it.

Hunt, not worried about your or anybody elses business. I am however overly impressed you have no lead in your barrels. I know more than a couple of bpcr champion level shootes, and they all have their own routines for checking for and removing lead from the barrels.

kurt250 · October 07, 2009, 03:32:22 PM

i have used 50% balistol 50%water. in spry bottle just shake up to mix. use balistol strate on carosive ammo to wab barrel. also use super clean sometimes. get it at auto supply stores. same mix. use three in one oil also. gotzguns

James Hunt · October 07, 2009, 04:12:47 PM

Quote from: Ranch 13 on October 07, 2009, 08:37:18 AMHunt, not worried about your or anybody elses business. I am however overly impressed you have no lead in your barrels. I know more than a couple of bpcr champion level shootes, and they all have their own routines for checking for and removing lead from the barrels.

Ranch 13: Just lucky I guess!

Seriously, I am sure I don't pour the amount of lead through any gun I own that a "champion" level shooter does. I qualify my comments relevant to their association with anecdotal evidence. On the other hand I am constantly amazed when reading of "champion" level shooters who use all of these different products in their bore, oft times modern solvents and petroleum based products. I read this in gun literature, I see it on the Shiloh board. I don't get it.

There are but few others like me who pursue the minimalist approach to cleaning - but I will point out that it was a procedure used consistently throughout the 18th and 19th century and by all accounts with great success. Subsequently, I really wonder if my miraculous "lead free" environment is not related to this approach. I do not doubt what you say, I guess what I am saying is that whatever non-observable lead is left in that bore seems to effect nothing and certainly does not require any removal efforts - there appears to be no significant accumulated material over time.

You do read some historical references to leading. There are a very few references of buffalo hunters commenting "my gun was so leaded up I had to quite shooting", or something to that effect. The reference I immediately recall occurred after 1874 when the very heavy bullets with large amounts of powder were starting to be used, and after several hundred rounds had been fired rapidly out of an extremely hot barrel. Unfortunately, there was no comment as to how often he wiped the bore, attempts to keep it cool, or any comment with regard to how he cleaned the bore after it was so leaded.

Never the less when reading period literature of buffalo hunters I am amazed at the paucity of discussion regarding any frequency of leading despite the fact that these guy's were keeping their firearms working under the most primitive conditions while shooting literally hundreds of rounds thru hot barrels. You read many times of them literally shooting their barrels out and then replacing them but never once of someone riding into town for some JB Bore paste - or however they solved the problem. I find this fascinating.

Hope this is well received, I have no wish to be argumentative, I am not saying my way was confided to me by Billy Dixon in a dream on the outskirts of Dodge, I am not saying I am right. I am saying that in my humble opinion we put way to much worry or effort into an item that seems to do well even when I don't put much worry or effort into it. And it costs peanuts.

Regards, Jim (whose quality of life has improved since he quit obsessing about the relationship between BP and oxidation and now leading and started smearing a little animal fat on his most recently used weapon)

Fairshake · October 10, 2009, 07:20:02 AM

Ballistol with the 1:7 mix and I don't have a separation problem for general cleaning. I use Kroil if I feel that the bbl might have lead. Wet a patch with Kroil and run it down your bore until it's very wet. Leave for at least 4 or more hrs and run a dry patch and if you had lead it will be on that patch. James Hunt you are correct in the fact that plain water will do the job of cleaning and that's the way that Billy Dixon did it. He also got to Adobe Walls on horse back and walking. How did you arrive at your last shoot? I don't adhere to the fact that we have to do as they did. If such products as Ballistol and Kroil were available to them they would have been used. They were using what they had and that was water and not all the time as you can find many old BP guns with pitted bbls from non-cleaning.Billy would have looked at you like you were crazy and ask why are you using water when Ballistol is better.

Ranch 13 · October 10, 2009, 09:03:44 AM

Those oldguys also used things like jars of fermented urine, whale oil, lamp oil, semiphore oil and other things to clean and protect their rifles.

James Hunt · October 12, 2009, 02:32:15 PM

For Fairshake:

Jame Hunt arriving at his most recent CAS shoot!

He left on Tuesday and just made the 10am safety meeting Saturday morning.

Also for Fairshake, you said: "If such products as Ballistol and Kroil were available to them they would have been used."

Come on Fairshake - This rhetoric pops up constantly, lets once and for all dispense with such specious could have / would have logic.

If we wish to go down that road of thinking, Billy would have used a .338 to kill buffalo, an M-4 to fend off Comanches, and have tucked a Glock into his waistband when heading to Dodge. His SUV would have had a cooler full of Coors and he would have never been caught without a spare bottle of Shooters Choice. If he could have.

So what is the point.

To all:

Look, I think Kroil, Ballistol, moosemilk, and motherhood are all fine, fine things. I meant no offense to anyone's products. I am not implying that anyone become a living history nut. My whole point to this entire thread was I have had very good outcomes using the cheapest products out there, water and tallow. I have arrived at the opinion that less is more when it comes to cleaning BP guns. You all have arrived at a different point of view, let the new guy find his own way without our excessive proselytizing.

Regards Jim - who embraces diversity in cleaning products.