Is a Ruger Old Army considered a Remington and welcome here?

WaddWatsonEllis · September 03, 2009, 08:38:08 PM

After I bought my little Remington Pocket Pistol, I got to thinking about a pair of stainless Ruger Old Army pistols ....

Was just wondering if they are considered a 'Remington' and welcome here ....

hellgate · September 03, 2009, 11:02:06 PM

Hey, anyone willing to accept the challenges of cap & ball is welcome. The ROAs are basically a new design in which Bill Ruger took the best ideas/designs from the Remington, Colt, and Rogers & Spencer revolvers and engineered out the problems to make the most reliable C&B ever made. I happen to not own any ROAs as I like the historical models and overcoming their design flaws to feel a part of history. The ROA also borrowed from custom gunsmithing that was used to modify the ROA for competitive shooting in Cowboy Action matches by creating the fixed sighted 5.5" models. I was told years ago by a friend/gunsmith that if I wanted to be competitive in the Frontiersman category (C&B) I should get a pair of ROAs and he would cut them down to 5.5" and tune them to be match winners. I did not take his advice but he was prescient as most of the top Frontiersman winners use that design since it is so reliable. I know someone who fiddled with his ROAs for years to perfect them (different springs, nipples, etc.) and finally put everything back into stock status and said they worked best as is from the box. However the gun is only part Remington.

WaddWatsonEllis · September 03, 2009, 11:17:12 PM

I have never done any C&B, so this is a whole new drift for me.

I have a pair of Schofields that I compete with, and barring falling in love with black powder, will probably continue to do so.

But I have been asked to do both docent work for the City of Sacramento, and join in with some reenactors who only do black powder ..... and I really, really don't want to put any black powder in my Schofields.

So I was thinking that the stainless shiny 5.5 OAs with the fixed sight might be a good look for an 1860s/1870s
Californio dandy shootist .... and let me make clouds of black powder any time I want to...

I am perfectly okay with a gun I can basically 409 and put in the closet until next week. Don't want to tweak/repair/refine ... and it sounds like the OA Might be just what I am looking for ....

What kind of holster would you suggest? I know the era did not use buscadero rigs, but I kinda like the Flames of Hell holster from 3:10 to Yuma ... just no flames ... basic black with little enough cant to allow them to be turned into a traditional double strong side should I ever want to compete with them ... I think SASS has a max of 30 degrees cant...

Wolfgang · September 04, 2009, 02:48:53 AM

If it sounds like fun to ya . . . . . then DO IT

Angel_Eyes · September 04, 2009, 07:32:53 AM

I agree with Wolfgang, 100%!!!

It is fun and ought to be made compulsory!

Go for the Rugers, whatever the barrel length, because you will enjoy them and they clean up real easy, and are infinitely reliable.

Have fun and make smoke,,,regards, Angel Eyes.

River City John · September 04, 2009, 08:39:26 AM

Sorry Boys,

I applaud your interest, WaddWatsonEllis, but technically the Ruger Old Army is NOT a Remington nor a Remington replica.
The best Forum for your ROA would be the Darksider's Den/Dark Arts Forums, which ARE all about shooting BP pistols, including all
cap 'n' ball.

Below is the "Mission Statement", so to speak, of SCORRS.

The Society of Remington Revolver Shooters (SCORRS) is for anyone interested in all aspects of the history and shooting of Remington revolvers and their replicas. Join us here to share information about these fine revolvers. Discussion of other Remington firearms from the same period is welcome. Visit our web site at http://www.scorrs.org

Besides, sooner or later you probably WILL get drawn to owning a Remington replica if you're interested already in the Ruger Old Army.

Then SCORRS will be the perfect fit!

RCJ

WaddWatsonEllis · September 04, 2009, 10:33:10 AM

River City John,

Actually, I already shoot a Pietta Remington 1863 Pocket Pistol ... converted to S&W .32 Short cartridge.

As well as the two Schofields.

The reason for the Ruger interest was that I have been asked to docent with a black powder group in my own River City (Sacramento CA).

As a docent, I would want guns that are easily cleaned, and non finicky. Something that can be cleaned and put away with full expectation that they would function properly the next time they are used.

I would be as interested in a Remington reproduction if it were to function the same way ... and had stainless that looked like nickel plating ....

But thanks for your $0.02; it is duly noted and accepted.

River City John · September 04, 2009, 02:32:10 PM

Sounds great!

That little pocket Remington is all kinds of bona fide.

Most all c 'n' b revolvers need a little tweaking to function reliably, and Remingtons are no different. They are, though, less finicky, as you mentioned.

RCJ

Major 2 · September 04, 2009, 03:24:16 PM

Remingtons can be had in Stainless

WaddWatsonEllis · September 04, 2009, 04:45:07 PM

River City John,

As you say, I am still 'working on the tweaking' on the little pocket pistol conversion ... like:

1.) On a 25 foot pistol range, I can't seem to hit a human sized target. And it kicks up so little dirt that the Range Officer standing behind me could not see where the bullet was hitting ....

2.) Using MAGTECH .32 S&W ammo, the casings would be so jammed into the cylinder that they had to be forced out using a .22 casing at the end of a dowel.

I talked to Mr. Millington about the conversion and the problems I was having and he said 1.) The were designed for no more accurate distance than accross a poker table, and to expect accuracy at 25 Yds was unrealistic ... and 2.) the MAGTECH rounds were WAY too powerful (muzzle velocity 905 ft/sec, muzzle energy 129 ft/lbs). He suggested a mas of an 84 gr bullet with 1.4 grs. of powder and a max muzzle velocity of 608 ft/sec.

So a friend of mine is reloading some .32 S&W to these specs, and we will see how the gun and cylinder behave with this ammo.

Plus I am going to simulate SASS with paper plates at eight feet and see if I can hit the bloody things ....

James Hunt · September 05, 2009, 03:49:44 PM

WaddWatsonEllis:

I am getting the drift that you don't want to use BP because you 1/ don't want to suffer the cleanup procedure, 2/believe it will damage your gun if you fail to race home and clean it, 3/ or your gun will not function without problems, or all of the above.

I think you are subject to horror stories from those who do not know better. I shoot all original firearms (except for a 66) with black powder, Remington NM, Colt SAA, Colt Open top. I have never seen damage to any because of the use of BP. I have never had any malfunction because of the use of BP. I have an oriiginal Remington in my safe right now that I shot blanks (powder with wad over it in chamber) in three days ago. I probably should clean it today, but expect to find absolutely no damage to the gun.

By the way I only use H2O and tallow on my guns (light coat of olive oil on internals if I should ever take them apart). I have never seen rust or other damage from BP on these guns. I have had slight surface rusting (some of these guns have no finish left on them) after carrying them in the rain and leaving them in leather over a weekend. But rubbing some tallow on these spots, leaving it for a day, and then rubbing it out always removes it without any damage to the surface.

I think your fears are much to do about nothing. These guns were made for BP (not substitute, the real deal). PM me if you want more information. Regards, Jim

WaddWatsonEllis · September 05, 2009, 04:08:02 PM

Jim,

I am sire that there is some truth to what you say, that much of my experience with black powder is third hand, 'wive's tales' type of information.

But that being a given, I know that this pistol will probably suffer much more holster wear than shooting wear ...that when it is shot it will predominately be for stage reenactment with very little of the ball and much more of the cap being used.

So ... I want a KISS principle gun ... something that, to a non NCOWS bystander looks the part, but something that is reliable and ready to go when it is needed.

That is why the Ruger Old Army seems so appealing ... the stainless look on it looks like nickle plated ... to the average public it looks like an old Remington (if they even know what a Remington was), and I don't have to deal with shaving leaf springs & such to get it to feel correct ... Rugers just seem to come out of the box that way....

James Hunt · September 05, 2009, 04:29:02 PM

Perhaps I mis-understood. I find nothing wrong with your Rugers - you are right, for stage use probably no one in the audience can tell the difference (they seem awfully expensive when compared to Italians - are you sure the hoped for convenience factor is worth it?).

I was referring to the use of BP. I shoot at the most 2 NCOWS matches a year. I shoot far more rounds through two Colt SAA's (a first and a second gen) in mounted shooting. So have much experience with BP blanks. And yes the matches use a BP sub, but for practice we load our own with Goex 2f and a wad.

Just wanted to reinforce that there is no inconvenience or problems using BP even with blanks. At some point after use I clean them with water, and just rub tallow into all surfaces. The cylinders I just hose down under the tap and then drop into a container of Olive oil and then wipe with a paper towel. A few minutes to do. If I don't have the time I leave it until the next day.

Good luck!

WaddWatsonEllis · September 05, 2009, 09:11:00 PM

James,

I am probably going to go with one pistol and a large Bowie on the other for right now ... seems that was the general armament in 1849 to 1860.

And my first black powder experiences will be with BP blanks ... and will probably follow the same proceedures that the reenactment group already is doing.

If it seems like fun (which I am guessing it will be), I guess it would be time to start looking for a second ROA (and holster) to compete in SASS.

And as far as cleaning black powder, I am guessing that cleaning a stainless black powder gun ought to be at least as easy as cleaning my Schofields ... if not easier!

But for right now, I have my UBerti Schofields and holsters that will be my competition rig .... with modern powder in it ...

As far as the choice of Ruger Old Armys over a couple of Pietta Remington Clones, the choice for me is a no-brainer.

I have owned several Rugers (Security Six, 10-22, 10-44) and have found them to be sensible, straightforward and competent weapons that were metallurgically superior to anything else out there .... and when one considers gunsmithing fees and parts for any other weapon, the bit extra for a Ruger product washes out (at least to me)...

Just my opinion....