Steve Mcqueen, shooting the 1876 Winchester, in the movie "Tom Horn."

Stillwater · July 12, 2009, 08:46:47 PM

When Steve McQueen was target practicing with his 1876 Winchester, in the movie "Tom Horn," he installed a tang sight staff onto the tang sights base.

The base was tall and thick. Has anybody here seen that tang sight, or know what sight it was?

I want to get the same rifle, and would like to have that tang sight and base.

Bill

Wes Tancred · July 13, 2009, 03:40:57 AM

Look at the sights on this page (beautifully crafted replicas of originals)—

http://www.riflesmith.com/sightswinchester.html

—in particular the "thick base" styles. If I recall correctly, this was the type of tang sight on the Winchester 1876 that Steve McQueen used in "Tom Horn". On the thick base type, it is possible to remove and replace the sight staff by means of a knurled thumbscrew.

I have a #30A Long Staff Hunter mounted on my .50-95 1876.

ndnchf · July 13, 2009, 06:30:56 PM

One of my favorite movies

I have the #30 short hunter on my Uberti .50-95 and love it. I don't recall if its the same sight TH used, but looks similar.

Stillwater · July 23, 2009, 12:49:31 AM

Quote from: Wes Tancred on July 13, 2009, 03:40:57 AM
Look at the sights on this page (beautifully crafted replicas of originals)—

http://www.riflesmith.com/sightswinchester.html

—in particular the "thick base" styles. If I recall correctly, this was the type of tang sight on the Winchester 1876 that Steve McQueen used in "Tom Horn". On the thick base type, it is possible to remove and replace the sight staff by means of a knurled thumbscrew.

I have a #30A Long Staff Hunter mounted on my .50-95 1876.

I wish it was one of those, but it isn't... The sight base I saw on the 1876 was more than twice the thickness of thosesights.

The Staff he inserted into the base, reminded me of a Lyman sight.

Bill

Leverluver · July 23, 2009, 08:10:17 PM

I think what you will find it that it was an invention of "Hollyweird". They wanted a tang sight for "flavor" and didn't have the right one so they rigged a clunky block to mount a more readily available one.

Will Ketchum · July 23, 2009, 08:48:46 PM

Also when Tom Horn was doing his "Range Detecting" he used a Winchester 94 in 30 WCF better known as the 30-30

Made sense since it was smokeless. A guess a 1894 was too common for Hollywood and had him use a 76 in the movie. They usually get it the other way, using 92s without forearms to replicate Henrys and using them in just about every Western made for years.

Will Ketchum

Wes Tancred · July 24, 2009, 06:37:35 AM

It had been a while since I saw the film, so I just took out the DVD and looked at the scene. I was absolutely wrong about the sight!

It actually appears to be a relatively short Lyman tang sight mounted on a tall riser block that slides and locks into a mortised base mounted on the tang. It seems unnecessarily elaborate but could be rather old and original to some point in the gun's life. On the other hand, it is well blued while the Lyman sight is in the white; though the rifle was obviously refinished at a late date, quite possibly for the film.

A machinist could easily fabricate a base and riser like the one in the film. But there are many functionally better, and more historically appropriate choices available. The thick based sights I cited above are a type originally used on 1876s, and they do offer the ability readily to remove the sight staff from the base.

Roscoe Coles · August 11, 2009, 01:44:31 AM

You guys got me thinking so I got the movie on Net-Flix and watched it again. The 76 gets a lot of good play and aside from the Tom Sellick film where he uses a 76 carbine its about the only one where the 76 plays a big part. Good film, makes me want to read the books.

I would have to agree with what everyone else has said, Tom Horn shot a 94 in 30-30 and the sight is like nothing I have ever seen before. I think its a Hollywood special. Still, good movie and a nice 76.

Stillwater · August 12, 2009, 12:49:32 AM

I hope that sight and base aren't hollywood built, for the movie, sights...

Thanks for all of the comments and I'll keep looking around.

Bill

Wes Tancred · August 12, 2009, 03:22:16 AM

Robert Taylor used a nickel-plated 1876 in The Last Hunt, 1956. It had a tunnel-and-globe front sight, and a tang sight like the one I cited above. The film is about two buffalo hunters at the end of that era, so the rifle has some prominence. Stewart Granger used a Sharps in the film; it was also fitted with a tang sight. Both men are depicted reloading cartridges for the rifles whilst in camp, and quite realistically.

The tang sight on Steve McQueen's 1876 in Tom Horn was a vintage commercial article, likely a Lyman. Only the two-part base is of questionable origin.

Roscoe Coles · August 12, 2009, 06:42:35 PM

Wes,

Your quite right, I misspoke, the sight is original, its just not for a 76. It looks like an old lyman for a 22 or something with a large eye piece. Its just so short that they put it on a giant block to raise it up. I have also never seen one that slid onto a dovetail like that. I can see the director saying "we what to show him installing the rear sight" so they cooked it up. Still, its a cool 76 movie.

The history of the film is dubious on many many levels. Far from being cryptic and mute at the trial Horn talked up a storm. Also, his defense was paid for by the cattelmen's association and one of his team of awyers was on the Wyoming supreme court. From the transcripts of the trial he pretty much talked himself into a conviction, at one point negating a witness that said he was 25 miles away shortly before the shooting by saying that a man on a good horse could go that far in the time allowed.

Also, he was smart enough never to shoot anybody in town (like in the movie), He never got into open fights with anyone, or let anyone go to "tell em what you saw," and no one ever found any evidence linking him to the shooting he was convicted of or several others he was known to have committed. He was a bushwacker and according to statements he made did it that way because it was more scary to the folks he was after, though it also helped to keep him out of jail.

Like many other figures in the old west, he is and was quite controversial. Most of the folks he shot were actually involved in cattle theft and in several cases made no bones about it. The law was not up to punishing them, rustlers were generally freed by friendly juries. Most, if not all, of the men killed were told to stop and leave the country or get shot (notes were tacked to their homes), but they chose to stay. Having said that, there is not much doubt that Horn did kill a number of men from ambush and the odds are good that he actually killed the boy in question (though this is of course a bone of contention on which the movie was based). So, while he may not have been guilty of the murder he was convicted for, its pretty clear he killed a number of people and bragged about doing it. Even in turn of the century Wyoming, thats bound to get you into trouble sooner or later.