Hornaday Lock-N-Load AP

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

Howdy Gents 

        This may be a little off topic, but I didn't know where to post this, I'm interested in getting a progressive loading press, and have looked at Dillon 550 & 650, RCBS, and the Hornaday Lock-N-Load AP, I would like to hear from anyone that has any of these, and especially the Hornaday LNL AP, there doesn't seem to be too much information out there on the LOL AP, if any of you pards has had one of these for a while, I sure would appreciate any input you might have, I'm not in any hurry , I'm just trying to get as much information that can in order to make the right choice for myself. I'll be loading mainly handgun rounds, but maybe some rifle if it isn't to much of a problem. Thanks ahead of time. and a MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU ALL.


                                                              tEN wOLVES 


                                       

[Four Eyed Floyd]

Sorry I just use the Lee Progressive 1000 and a Lee Load all for shot shells. Both do what I need and at a reasonable price, I have maybe $200 total for both. 

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

Thanks for your reply Floyd, I'm keeping LEE Loading press in mind also.


                                 tEN wOLVES 

[Four Eyed Floyd]

One thing to remember about the Lee Progressive is it is a little tricky to first set up, once you get it dialed in it is no major deal. And the instructions are not really that much help. I never did any reloading before I got the Lee so it was a little frustrating at first, but after a year I finally "get it". 

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

Thanks Floyd for your input on the Lee progressive, I'll keep it in mine, I guess there aren't very many pards out there that have the Hornaday LNL AP, this press looks impressive, but it would be nice to get some feed back from some one that has had or has one, and what they think about it.

                                             Thanks Floyd for getting back with your reply 


                                                             tEN wOLVES 

[Four Eyed Floyd]

Any time, who knows maybe we will find some one that knows something. I am always looking for another press for other calibers. 

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Well, I said that eventually I would get back to you.

I have two Hornady L&L AP progressive presses, so I guess I must like them. I will try to give you an honest assessment telling you about the warts along with the good points.

I bought my first Hornady L&L AP about 5 or 6 years ago. I had taught myself reloading on a single stage press and wanted to move up to a progressive press. I had a couple of criteria that I wanted to stick to with my new progressive press. I wanted an auto-advancing 5 station press. This pretty much restricted my choices to the Dillon 650 and the Hornady. I looked at the RCBS progressive press at the time. I was very impressed with it, and considered it, but the RCBS press was a manually indexing press and I wanted an auto-indexing press. I considered the Dillon, and know everyone raves about them, but the comparably priced Dillon was the 550 which was a 4 station manually indexing press. In order to buy a 5 station auto-indexing Dillon I would have to spend about $100 more at the time for the 650. So I bought the Hornady press.

The heart of the Hornady system is the quick change Lock & Load bushings. Rather than screwing the dies directly into the press, the dies are screwed into bushings. The bushings are then inserted into the press with a half turn bayonet type insertion. Once the dies are set they are left mounted on their bushings. This means that to change calibers one simply pops one set of dies out and pops the new set in. This only takes a few seconds. The Hornady die bushings are threaded to accept the standard threads of all brands of dies. But there is a wrinkle to this, more on that later. The Hornady powder measure uses quick change inserts too. The inserts pop in and out with the press of a spring loaded button. One can get by with just one powder insert, but the idea is to keep several on hand, each one set to deliver a standard powder charge. I have four or five powder inserts that I keep set to the most common charges that I use. There is a wrinkle to this too, more on that later.

Two years ago I bought a second Hornady L&L AP. These days I keep the original one set up for large pistol primers and the new one set up for small pistol primers. I load 45 Colt, 45 Schofield, 45 ACP, 45 Auto Rim, 44-40, and 44 Special on the first press. So far I only load 38 Special on the new one, but I expect I will probably start loading 9mm on it soon, as I have renewed my acquaintance with my old Browning Hi Power.

You mention you were told the Hornady press is difficult to set up. I don't remember any difficulty. It took me a little bit of time, probably a couple of hours, to get the first one running, but it was not difficult, I simply followed the instructions and common sense. I seem to remember the only adjustment I needed to make was to the pawls that rotate the ram. When I set up my second press a couple of years ago it was very simple because I was already very familiar with the press. Yes, the primers do have a tendency to stick in the vertical primer tube. The solution is very simple. I place a 'gravity assist device' on top of the stack of primers in the tube. This is a piece of brass rod I bought at a hobby shop. It presses down on the stack of primers in the tube with enough weight that they feed very reliably. Dillon uses a plastic part to do much the same thing, I don't know why Hornady does not incorporate the same idea. My brass tube is about 18" long and I have a mark on it to indicate when I will run out of primers. Like all progressive presses, the primer feed system must be kept scrupulously clean. The part where the shuttle slides back and forth must be kept clean of primer or powder residue, as must the spring loaded part that is screwed into the base plate and presses the primers up into the cases. If dirt is allowed to build up in these parts, you will have problems. This is true of any brand of progressive press.

In the time between when I bought my first Hornady press and the second one, Hornady made several improvements to the press. The primer delivery system was redesigned, and the present version is much better than the old version. Gone too is the plastic part that used to break if you looked at it cross eyed. I used to always keep several on hand because they used to break with such regularity. Not a problem any more. Hornady has come up with a case feeder and a through the die powder drop arrangement. I do not use either of these, I am still using the original idea of occupying one station with the powder measure to the exclusion of a die. With 5 stations, there is plenty of room for this.

OK, now for the warts. As I mentioned before, the Hornady press accepts all brands of dies. However when using some brands of dies the die in the last station will interfere with the 'kick out' wire when the ram is raised all the way to the top. This is because Hornady dies are designed so that they do not need to be screwed as deep into the press as most other brands of dies. There are several ways around this problem. When I load 44-40 with my old RCBS dies I flip the kick out wire out of the way so there is no interference. This means I flick each completed round into the holding bin with my thumb. No big deal. Other solutions are to grind down the bottom of the die, or to not use that station. As I said, this is only a problem in the last station, none of the other stations. But I do only buy Hornady dies now when I start loading a new caliber, to avoid the problem.

The wrinkle with the powder measure is that the way the measure is set up for the press there can be difficulty dialing down for very small powder charges. I did not discover this until I bought my second press. I had been loading charges like 7.5 grains of Unique with no problem at all. But when I bought my second press and tried loading light 38 Special loads for Mrs Johnson I encountered a problem. The heart of the powder measure is a part called the rotor. The powder inserts are inserted into the rotor. When attempting to dial it down to just 3.0 grains of Clays, I discovered that I could not dial the standard inserts down that far. They would only go down to around 5.0 grains of Clays as I seem to remember. Hornady makes a special rotor for the powder measure specifically for pistol loads, and it uses its own style of inserts, the standard inserts do not fit it. So I had to order the pistol rotor and a few of the pistol rotor inserts to dial down for those light loads of Clays. So that is some extra parts I had to order in order to load light 38 Sp Cowboy loads. I'm sure if Hornady included the pistol rotor rather than the standard rotor with the press it could easily handle heavier charges like 7.5 grains of Unique, but they don't. Since the pistol rotor inserts are a smaller diameter, they are actually more reliable and repeatable for small charges than the standard rotor is. Since probably 90% or these presses are probably used for pistol loads, I dunno why Hornady does not include the pistol rotor and inserts as standard, but they don't.

A few other things you should know about the press. The part that holds the shells on the shell plate is a long circular spring. It tends to kink easily and if it gets too kinked it will break. The spring is a nice idea since it allows a case to be easily removed from any station on the press. But always keep at least one extra on hand. If it breaks there is nothing to keep the shells on the shell plate and you are out of business until you replace it.

I have been favorably impressed with Hornady's repair and replacement service, most of the time if I broke a part they would replace it for free. No, they don't have a 'no questions asked' policy, but I usually get replacements for free. And they recently sent me a bunch of die parts for free because they had updated the design recently.

I hope I have painted a true and honest picture of the Hornady L&L AP press. I endeavored to include the warts along with the good parts, so you would get an accurate picture. I do like the press, and am not sorry I bought a second Hornady, rather than some other brand.

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

Howdy Driftwood 

      Thanks Pard, your report was definitely worth waiting for, it was very honest and thorough, I really appreciate this, and thanks again for taking the time to get back to me. They all seem to have good points, and some bad, but I like the five station and auto indexing  along with the LNL bushings that seems to me to be a much easier way to switch out different calibers, and the bushing aren't that much price wise, the press itself looks to rock solid and real heavy duty, this is going to help me close in on my choice,

                            MERRY CHRISTMAS Driftwood Johnson 


                                    tEN wOLVES 

[Jefro]

Howdy Ten Wolves, I started out on a Lee Classic Turret, great little press for what it does. For progressive I went with the Hornady LNL AP, and could not be more satisfied. It will make ammo as fast as I can feed cases and bullets, and pull the handle. I did my home work for over a year before buying a progressive and always came back to the LNL. I checked out Dillon 550 and 650, and heard all about blue, blue, blue, Dillon makes a great press, I just decided on maroon. I preferred the ease of caliber change with about the same features as a 650 for the price of a 550. I thought about using the Lee factory crimp die, but found I really liked the Hornady seat-crimp die. Even though I bought the powder through expander die, I found it easier to just us the expander die, without it I would have had an empty station anyhow. I set mine up a little different than what I've seen and find it to be very efficient. Station 1 deprime-size, station 2 expander, station 3 powder, station 4 powder cop, station 5 seat-crimp. The powder cop is a must. One thing I knew about from my research, is the primer tube works better with a little pressure to feed smoothly when the primers run low. Some folks use a brass or dowel rod, I made mine from a coat hanger and ground the end flat and smooth. I added a flag to mine to let me know when the primers are running low. They have a NO-RISK, LIFETIME WARRANTY, but have yet to need it. I did put the wrong seater in the seat-crimp die and set it to tight. It pushed through the crimp ring, all my fault. I called Hornady to get a replacement and told them what I had done, they said no problem and sent me a new one, including another crimp ring no charge. Now a case feeder is on the wish list. I think they are doing the 1000 free bullets till Dec. 31. Hope this helps, Good Luck.






Jefro

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

Howdy Jeffro 

         Thanks for the feed back Pard, I've been doing my homework too, just like you, and thats why I posted this post, there isn't a lot of talk or press on the LOL AP, but after reading what I could find, I found I liked what I was reading, it looks to be put together really well, and I think for what I'll be using it for it would be better than I first thought, and with you and Driftwood as co-signers on the quality and reliability of the Hornaday LNL AP I feel if I were to go this route I would be making a good choice, I like the bushing idea, that you can change out different dies with more ease than some of the others, and this type set up for changing dies doesn't cost near as much as some of the others and may be a more solid fit this way than others. I like most have been using a RCBS Rock Chucker to reload on, I started loading in 84, and never did think of myself as being that great at it , but all my ammo came out to spec so I guess I didn't do too bad, but was just slow, the Rock Chucker is a good press and probably best suited for rifle rounds, which is what I'll keep using it for, but for the rest I need something a lot faster and not so time consuming but that will give me great ammo at the same time. Thanks Jeffro for taking the time to reply and also share those pictures, and your right I still have time to take advantage of the free 1000 bullets.

                                           MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU AND YOUR FAMILY


                                                                   tEN wOLVES     

[JP Anderson]

I recently received Hornady's 2009 catalog and it looks like they fixed my only beef with their Lock-N-load AP (LNL) by upgrading the shell eject from a wire to device under the shell plate they call an EZject. It wasn't that big of beef but it's nice to see it fixed. The old wire worked on some calibers not on the others.

As far as the Hornady being hard to setup it really isn't...... if you know what your doing. Unlike the Hornady the Dillon comes setup for one caliber from the factory. This is great for a new reloader but it only last until the need to change caliber and then your back at square one and need to know how to adjust your reloading dies. At that point they are all require about the same skill.

A progressive does the same job as a single stage press. It just does it ALL with one pull and that can be complicated when your learning to reload. I've reloaded for 35 years and when I first started with my LNL AP I was a bit overwhelmed with all that was going on. Same with the initial setup. It just takes some time to get up to speed so be patient and give yourself a bit of time to learn the reloading process and your equipment. Try and develop a routine but mostly, read the dang book and maybe get a old reloader to help you setup.

Most any problem I've had on the progressive I've had with single stage presses. There is no substitute for experience and no room in reloading for someone without patience. And read the dang book.

Customer service has been great and the parts free. Only thing I ever needed is the shell retainer spring and they sent 3 new ones for free. I've discovered they are the same spring as used in oil seals and the auto parts store has them as well but there not free. I love my Lock-N-Load and I'm glad I bought it. I'm very impressed by it's overall quality. It even has grease zerks on all pivots. If your impatient, non-mechanical and break everything you touch you might prefer the Dillon. If you want a high quality robust progressive that can load everything from small pistol to large belted magnum rifle the LNL is a great press for the money.

That's my 2 bits,

J.P. Anderson
Havre, Montana

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

Howdy JP Anderson

        Thanks for your reply, after listening to my other Pards on this tread, I decided to go with the Hornaday LNL AP, although I still don't have it I bought it from Midway USA, and they said they won't get anymore in till the middle of January, so it was put on back order for me, I tried to call Hornaday A couple days ago, but they are closed until after New Years, and will reopen on January 5, 2009, I was sent an email by another pard that said to look out for old stock , that some retailers were getting rid of what they had and the new EZEJECT is not on them, but seeing how mine won't be in till the middle of Jan. it should have this upgrade on it. I really think I chose the right progressive press for my needs, it's not going to cost that much to get what I need to load other calibers, and the bushing design I think is great and much more user friendly for changing from one caliber to another, the press like you said looks to be heavy duty, and the cert fittings are a big plus with me and should really make a difference in time, it will be a big change for me to go from a Rock Chucker to the LNL AP, but I'm looking forward to it, like you said READ the instructions, I found out the free 1000 bullets will be extended through all of 2009, what a great deal this is. I ordered a bushing conversion for my Rock Chucker press, so I'll be able to use dies in that press too, that will also make it nicer and faster to change out calibers when I'm using that press. I'm going to order the POWDER COP, for the forth station, which will I think help will me keep an eye on things, I'll be using RCBS dies, I'm sure they will work , if you have any thoughts on that I would appreciate your input.

                                           Again Thanks JP, for your thoughts on the Hornaday LNL AP, and HAPPY NEW YEARS 


                                                                           tEN wOLVES 

[motorcop]

Hi Ten Wolves:  I just bought a Hornady LNL in November and I like it a lot.  Mine has the wire shell ejector and it has proven at times to be a PITA, but it works.  If you have the old style wire jector reloader you can send it back to Hornady and for $100.00 they will convert it to the new style press.  As of yet I haven't sent mine in, but I may some day.  I too was unfamiliar with progressive presses when I first got mine, but I did one shell at a time until I saw how everything works...there's a lot of things going on at the same time with these things.  Once I saw how it all worked it was really straight forward.  Just remember to take your time and keep an eye on your primer level and feed device as has been pointed out already.  What did/does help me out a lot is good case preparation.  I use a separate primer punch to get rid of the used primers after cleaning my cases.  Then I check case length, clean the primer pockets and I am all set.  By the way, I did get the pistol rotor and micrometer measure from Hornady for my powder measure.  It really helps get the smaller power amounts I want and it is easy to change settings because it works like a mic and the readings are repeatable.  Hope this helps and good luck.  Let us know how it works when you get it.  Rick

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

Howdy All

     Well I finally got my Hornady L&L AP, after waiting 4 months to get it, but was worth the wait, I read the manual well before starting to put it together and set it up, and things went real well, I had a couple quick questions I need to ask, made a call to Hornady and they took care me in just a few minutes, so I was happy with there service in that way, I am really surprised as to how strong and sturdy this press is , it's massive , but the topper is that is without a doubt the SMOOTHEST press I've ever worked on, not that I've own a lot of presses, but I have tried several out in the past, the L&L AP is just precision, everything is precise and tight. I'm using my RCBS carbide dies in 45 long Colt, and with this bushing system it is totally user friendly, I added the Powder Cop, and this works well too and it's right in front so seeing it is no problem, the auto powder measure is accurate and works flawlessly. They added a primer tube follower which is a good idea to put a little pressure on the primers as they go down, and the new E-Zject work great, when I received my press from UPS, it was in perfect condition, no dents or tears in the box at all. They still have the 1,000 free bullets promotion going through out the rest of the , I think this press is really taking off, because at the beginning of this year, they were 1,200 orders behind.
     Well I guess that's it, I thank all of you for the information you gave me, and I'm glad I went with the Hornady L&L AP and also glad I listened to all your input.

                                          A big thanks to all you Pards


                                               tEN wOLVES 

[Fox Creek Kid]

Here's something that you really need to make the LNL perfect. Aftermarket part invented by a young engineer:

http://www.lnlptx.com/

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

  Thanks Kid, I just ordered one, looks like a great idea.


                    tEN wOLVES 

[fourfingersofdeath]

Thanks Driftwood, great write up. When I retired I was going to set myself up with a new progressive. I currently have three Lee 1000s and like them. I have also picked up an old Green Machine which is set up for 38s, My first orogressive was a Hornady Pro Jector which I could never, ever get to auto index 100% accurately. I ended up settign it so it just stopped short and I pushed it into battery so to speak. The primer feed was a challenge as well. I was so frustrated with the rotten thing I found myself just about to light up the gas axe and attack the press. I realised how silly this was and unbolted it, packed it up and put it in the boot of the car and took it to the gunshop and sold it the next day.

I owned a 550 which while not foolproof, was ok. I sold it to feed children.

Unfortunately I seem to find a new pistol or rifle everytime I get enough money together for the new press.

My research recently indicates that the L&L would be the way to go. The Dillons are good, but expensive for lots of different calibres. You need a die head and a powder measure for each calibre loaded, this gets expensive. The die head is about the same price as the L&L collars.

Decisions, decisions.

I have taken the liberty of copying your wise words to add to my research on the subject, this will help me decise finally.

Thanks, Four Fingers.