N-SSA Inspection Chart Comparing Original Spencer & Armi Sport Spencer Rifles

Two Flints · April 22, 2009, 05:16:33 PM

Hello SSS,

I thought you might be interested in seeing the N-SSA Inspection Chart used to compare the measurements of an original 1860 Spencer Rifle with those of an Armi Sport Spencer Rifle, Model 1865. The incorrect dimensions are shown in red and can be easily seen.

Recently one of the Small Arms Inspectors checked 3 of the new ArmiSport Spencer Rifles, hoping to give them Temporary Approval to be used in the N-SSA's competitive matches. What he found was the location of the middle barrel band does not match an original Spencer Rifle. On all 3 ArmiSport rifles the middle barrel band was 1" too far forward. Instead of the barrel bands being mounted 13.5" forward of the front edge of the receiver, all 3 were 14.5" forward. We were surprised to see a full one inch difference from an original Spencer Rifle. Our allowable +/- tolerance is 0.375" (3/8"). Even with that the middle bands are still 0.625" (5/8") too far out.

I probably should have added a disclaimer that all N-SSA Small Arms inspection sheets are subject to modification, or updating, without notice. Some changes are made to simplify things, others are to expand basic descriptive information. Some dimensions are a "mean" of several surveyed arms that have varied one from the other. The changes are usually based on feedback from our membership, or the Committee members themselves.

Two Flints

Tuolumne Lawman · April 22, 2009, 07:46:57 PM

You can use fiberglass bedding, cryogenic freezed barrels, O rings in sharps, non traditional bullets, peepsights on a Spencer, and all manner of modern crapolla inside but the Spencer's middle band is one inch off. YOU HAVE GOT TO BE KIDDING ME!

I may have to wave my magic delete wand

Hell-Er High Water · April 22, 2009, 09:28:13 PM

Like I said before, the stitch counters are at it again.

HHW

I may have to wave my magic delete wand

Appalachian Ed · April 23, 2009, 08:24:52 AM

Neither of you guys shoot in the N/SSA, so why not stop putting down things you do not understand.

The N/SSA has been around MUCH longer than the SASS, NCOWS, CWSA, or what ever other group historic shooting group you want to name.

From their efforts we have many of the fine reproductions we have today.

It is not cool to run down things you have no involvement with anyway.

Eddie Bruner

I may have to wave my magic delete wand

Tuolumne Lawman · April 23, 2009, 08:54:41 AM

ED,

Please don't be on the defense. I am not running N-SSA down. I respect it. It is a great organization, and a valuable resevoir of information. If I had the time and location, I would participate.

I am only questioning why they worry about 1" difference in sling swivel and band, but do cryogenic barrels, O rings, etc. One moronic policy does not make it a bad organization, it only makes it a moronic policy.

I re-enact and am familiar with stitch nazis. I try to take the reasonable middle ground and be historically accurate as posible and as I can affford. I do sleep in a dog tent, on a rubber poncho over hay, under wool blankets (including my saddle blanket) with my overcoat as a pillow. I even limit myself to period food and cooking. I refuse, however, to wear period correct wool underwear in August heat, just as I refuse to drink unfiltered water and get dysentery and have period correct stained drawers as a result! I also know that Desitin and Gatoraid are a re-enactors best freinds when wearing wqool in the summer!

I may have to wave my magic delete wand

Appalachian Ed · April 23, 2009, 09:05:50 AM

What you as an outsider to the organization feels is "moronic" does not feel that same way to a member and a participant.

Just by your choice of words you are offensive.

-Eddie Bruner

I may have to wave my magic delete wand

Tuolumne Lawman · April 23, 2009, 09:43:07 AM

ED,

I am sorry if you find my way of questioning a policy offensive. It was not meant to be. I did nothing to denigrate your organization (which I happen to respect as a whole) or any member there of, only a policy. I merely stated an opinion about a specific rule being moronic, nothing more. Last time I checked, everyone does have a right to an opinion. I think some tax laws and local ordinances are moronic, does that make me a disloyal citizen? I think not. I vote when I can to change what I can. Do I have to be a Democrat to criticize a Democratic policy, or a Republican to criticize a Republican policy?

I hope this clarifies it. The last thing I want to do is offend you or anyone else.

If I have, you have my sincerest apologies.

Bernie Molloy

I may have to wave my magic delete wand

Tuolumne Lawman · April 23, 2009, 10:02:15 AM

By the way, I like your Gwen and Campbell in your avitar Do you actually use it in skirmishing?

Appalachian Ed · April 23, 2009, 10:46:32 AM

It is not a Gwen. It is a Keen & Walker. I have in the past shot individual matches with it. But is is not competitive in team.

Photos of the Keen & Walker at this link: (Two Flints)

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,14147.msg191317.html#msg191317

-Ed

Fox Creek Kid · April 23, 2009, 10:39:43 PM

If push came to shove a fella could get a replacement fore end & fit it.

http://www.dunlapwoodcrafts.com/milstocks.htm

Major 2 · April 24, 2009, 07:22:39 AM

Quote from: Fox Creek Kid on April 23, 2009, 10:39:43 PM
If push came to shove a fella could get a replacement fore end & fit it.

http://www.dunlapwoodcrafts.com/milstocks.htm

There is a voice of reason

Now then...I have shot NSSA , many years ago late 70's- and into the 80's...
Introduced to it in Richmond Va.
at the Time, I shot a Garrett Sharps & 2nd Gen. 1860 ( still have the Colt ). BTW the Garrett made by Palmetto was dead on balls accrate in design..orginal parts were a direct fit (I know I had an original lock plate on mine )
One minor deveation was the Breach block pin Diameter. The Garrett was a bit smaller in Dia. it made no performance difference.

I recall Plethora of Zouove Rifles....Smiths were common, among and along with Original iron.
This statement is quite true...The N/SSA has been around MUCH longer than the SASS, NCOWS, CWSA, or what ever other historic shooting group you want to name.
IF you include ALL

From ALL their efforts we have many of the fine reproductions we have today. lets also include, persons like the late Val Forgett II ,Bill Garrett, Aldo Uberti, the Pietta Brothers, Lou Imperato and even Sergio Leone.

I also reenacted, mounted horse cavalry for nearly 30 years ( yes, several horses and still have my last one )

I've heard the flap and seen the YAHOOS...Opinions ..yata yata

.650 ? or .250

will it make a Hill "O" Beans difference down range where lead hits the target....or will it allow a new shooter the opportunity it get on range.....In either NSSA or SASS when it becomes so much more important to have the trick 'o' the month shortstroke or "fiberglass bedding, cryogenic freezed barrels, O rings in sharps, non traditional bullets"
Arn't we , sending the hobby out of reach for the avarage JOE.

My point here is not to flame ... I've seen to many modern eyeware , hearing muffs at both NSSA & CAS ( and fully understand the necessity ) to worry about a 1" barrel band...

Please don't infur...I don't believe in authinticity ...I do ...and would agree to ask Armi Sport to make the change...however,I also understand the cost involved....
I just don't believe the Gun should be disallowed because of a few variations in dimentions.
After all , the Pietta Remington ( quite visable in NSSA ) is oversized , the Henry has a some what longer carrier than the originals.
The LeMat has the Loading lever on the reverse side ....

l enjoy the research & the imagination and the shooting...I shoot SASS because there is no NCOWS here in Florida (yet)

My only suggestion is ENJOY what you do..don't sweat what the next guy thinks or count his threads.