A superb Spencer carbine purchased in Belgium

[clyde]

Hello gentlemen,

I am now the proud owner of a minty Spencer carbine. Some pictures can be found here :
http://www.wildwesttreasures.org/item.php?id=1044&location=newest&title=Spencer%20carabine%20new%20model%201863%20in%20superb%20condition

When I saw it a few weeks ago, I decided it would be mine, so I waited until I could take a day off, took my car, drove 350 km from Paris to Belgium and traded some of my other guns.
Exit my 1865 Spencer carbine and my New Model rifle, + 1 trapdoor carbine (made from a cut-off rifle), and enter the new Spencer.  I really liked my carbine and my rifle, but although they were nice shooting guns, I couldn't resist the appeal of the new toy, with so much bluing and case-hardening left ! I plan to shoot this Spencer 3-4 times a year and not more, so by taking extreme care I think it will not deter of its value. My centerfire breechblock will need some filing, this will be done when I have some time.

You will certainly see that the description on the merchant's website is not completely accurate. The carbine is not a civil war model but a model 1865. The bore is not 6 grooves but 3, which is correct for a Burnside made Spencer. There are 2 strange features. First, the cartouche is ESA, which does not correspond to the cartouches listed in Roy Marcot's book on Spencers. Second, the carbine has a Stabler cut-off, a bit surprising for a relatively eary serial number (12622). Marcot states that the first 16000 Burnside 1865. But everything else is correct, so I think it is just some exception here.

I'd like to tell you also that the merchant is a very nice guy. When I told him I had driven 350 km to see him, he offered me some coffee, some food, and we chatted for nearly 3 hours. He showed me ALL his guns, including some that he had just brougth from a trip to the States. He put a revolver in my hand.... that was a real Colt Walker ! Apparently it was one of the best Walkers known to exist, that he purchased from a well known american gun collector. The gun was sold to a european collector but was not yet shipped. Then he told me the gun was worth EUR 250,000 !!!! I gasped and put it carefully on a table, making all my best not to drop it or scratch it or whatever ! But now, I am one of the few people to have handled a real walker ! Gosh, was that a day !!!

If you have a look at the website, you'll see some other nice spencers, including an engraved one. That is not my taste (nor in my budget !!!), but an interesting piece all the same.

I hope you could feel some of my enthousiasm in this post 

BTW, I think my "new" Spencer carbine was never issued, but if Two Flint you can have a look in your files and let me know what the serial number 12622 tells, I'd be grateful.

kind regards, take care all
Clyde

[Two Flints]

Hi Clyde,

Some time ago I acquired the four volume set of the Springfield Research Service (SRS) Serial Numbers of U.S. Martial Arms. I purchased the set so I could help SSS members identify which unit their original Spencer Carbine or rifle was issued or assigned to during, and perhaps, after the Civil War.

Unfortunately, not all the Spencer serial numbers are listed in the four volume set I own. And, there are gaps between indicated serial numbers. This paragraph is a DISCLAIMER of sorts. As a courtesy to SSS members, I am happy to reveal to you the information I have regarding the serial number of your Spencer carbine or rifle. But, please remember, I am just regurgitating what I read in my SRS volumes with some "unscientific conjecture" on my part . What I do is the following: I take your Spencer serial number and try to place it in between the two closest serial numbers to yours listed in my SRS volume. In most cases, if the serial numbers for the Spencer before and after your own serial number were issued to the same unit, I assume your Spencer went to the same unit. Or, if your Spencer serial number is very, very close to another Spencer serial number, I assume your Spencer went to the same unit. I call this the "Two Flints guesstimation"  .  I'm guessing and estimating at the same time on what I believe to be correct information based upon the information I find in my four volume set of SRS.  If the information is lacking in correctness and or accuracy, it ain't my fault. I'm just doing the best that I can do with what I have to work with   And that is the best that I can do for you.

Having written all the above, your Spencer Carbine may have been issued to a member of Co I, 3rd Michigan Volunteer Cavalry on or about May of 1864.  Other serial #s very close to your Spencer carbine also show them going to the same Michigan Cavalry Unit.  Perhaps your carbine made its way back to the Ordinance Department and then to Burnside for alterations and or repairs, and was later sold and shipped off to Europe (France?).

Two Flints

[Herbert]

your carbine was refinished by springfield armory ,it would have been yoused by calvery out west and then returned to springfield ither when it was replaced by a newer modle arm or needed repairs,hence the ESA mark and cutoff ,it was deliverd to army july 18 1865

[Herbert]

in the ad for 1865 spencer rifle he has got description wrong, it apears to be made up of parts searial no puts frame in 1867 model range,1865 model barell with 1863 modle sights,this dosent mean it is meant to decive as spencer was yousing parts left over from previous modles to clear stock,about harf of 1867modles were fited with lane extractors,your carbine has also had the frot sight modified,1865s had 1 peice front sight,most proberly dune by springfield before being put into storige

[clyde]

Thank you for your answers Two Flint and Herbert.
Herbert I think you are right, the serial number of the rifle is Model 1867 or even New Model. The late Spencer were often made of a mix of parts, the company using whatever was available at this time, shortly before going completely bankrupt. So the 1865 marking on the barrel is no proof it is a model 1865. Actually I played with this rifle also and hesitated for a while before deciding for the carbine. The rifle had the standard blade extractor, not the Lane extractor or the short blade extractor often found on late models. But all other clues are in favor of a model 1867 or new model.

It is always fun to try to reconstitute the history of an antique gun... Now I'm impatient to shoot it !!

Bye all
Clyde