Question on cutting dye with alcohol, dry leather before dyeing?

[JD Alan]

This is a two parter

I remember reading here that sometimes people cut Fiebings dye with alcohol. I'm going to be using their oil based "pro" die, which I understand is still spirit based. Is there a "rule of thumb" on this?

I hope to try mixing up some vinegaroon and some walnut, heck even coffee dyes (leave out the dounuts) eventually, but I want to get this rig done sooner rather than later

2nd part. Reading through the sticky dye thread, people are talking about having the leather dry before dyeing. Having watched Chuck's DVD yesterday, for the umteenth time, he says case the leather before dyeing. I'm going to do that, but I wonder why some people think it's better do dye the leather when it's dry, unless I completely read it wrong (which happens too many times!)

Thanks very much, the very inexperienced JD

[HorsePen Henry]

Howdy JD,
I have always used the spirit dyes (alcohol based). I have always dyed the leather while dry. I guess I need to get it wet and try that someday. I have never seen the need to even try wetting it because when you "baptize" the leather in the dye the way I do it gets it done real good. Some one here has said they mix the alcohol based dyes in EVOO and rub it in that way. I may give that a try sometime since I use EVOO to finish my work with anyway. There are a lot of methods and techniques to try I guess.
M.T. Hulls aka Horse Pen Henry 

[JD Alan]

Thanks for weighing in on this Horse Pen. After seeing your work, I couldn't ask for a better reference. If I remember correctly, Chuck talks about opening up the grain with the water to allow better access to the leather, something like that. Don't qoute me verbatim, but I'm sure he cases the leather before dyeing.

I've heard of mixing dye with EVOO, but I'm still on step 1 here, so I'll experiement more as I more off the dime, so to speak.

Thanks much!

[HorsePen Henry]

Oh yeah, I fergot ta tell ya. I have cut the alcohol based stains with alcohol to make it last longer and it also makes it lighter if it is too dark for yer taste.
I think it was Don 101 across the crik that says he uses EVOO and stain mixed together for a beautiful warm finish to his work.
Maybe these two fellas will chime in on this too.
Horse Pen

[cowboywc]

Howdy Horse Pen
I want to be clear on this. Are you using dye or stain?
WC

[HorsePen Henry]

Dudn't dye stain things a different color than they already are? What about stain. It does too. I dunno, whatever Fiebing's and OMEGA used ta be and whatever Laurel Mountain Forge is. It's all the same thing to me. It smells the same and acts the same when you pour denatured alcohol into it and/or use on leather or wood. I don't use water based stains on wood or leather.
That's about as straight as I can get it. I use alcohol based stain/dye on both.

Horse Pen

[Skeeter Lewis]

Hi, JD

I've been trying to dip-dye with Fiebing's spirit dye after casing the leather and I'm going nuts. I can't get an even effect. Just today I've been trying to strip back a holster after another bad experience.
I'm going to try dyeing without casing, see if I have better luck.

PS I use Dye-Prep beforehand. Maybe that's the problem.

I cut the dye with Fiebing's thinner. It's REAL strong uncut.

[JD Alan]

Hey Skeeter, thanks for weighing in. I don't know if you've seen Chuck Burrows holster making DVD, but on it he dyes two different holsters. With both he rubs the dye in, then wipes the excess off before it has time to dry. I don't know if that's an issue or not.

I'm going to do some testing before dyeing my belt and holsters for sure. Thanks again for your input, JD

[Skeeter Lewis]

Yeah, JD, I've got Chuck's DVD. It's terrific.

I've gotta say, I follow Chuck's advice all the way. (He makes it look easy.)

I wipe the holster straight away. It's not that. I think it's the Dye-Prep. Some of the unevenness has a mottled look.

I'm going to try with another deglazer - maybe the Fiebing's thinner.

[cowboywc]

Dudn't dye stain things a different color than they already are? What about stain. It does too. I dunno, whatever Fiebing's and OMEGA used ta be and whatever Laurel Mountain Forge is. It's all the same thing to me. It smells the same and acts the same when you pour denatured alcohol into it and/or use on leather or wood. I don't use water based stains on wood or leather.
That's about as straight as I can get it. I use alcohol based stain/dye on both.

Horse Pen
Howdy Horse Pen
Here is a pix of 2 alcohol dyes and one alcohol stain from Fiebings.
The stain is meant to be used with oil. It is way too strong by itself.  I've never tried to use it by cutting it
with alcohol. I cut the dyes all the time for different shades. I do know people who use the dyes with oil but
I never have.
I use a lot of acrylic antique stains.
WC

[JD Alan]

Skeeter, when you say mottled I know what that looks like. I got that from trying to "clean" my leather with alcohol. It made it stiff, dark, and very mottled. I never tried to dye a piece of that, 'cause it was just a test of cleaning

What little bit of dye testing I've done makes me want to use oil and the sun. I haven't produced anything dye wise I liked at all, so I'm skeptical about doing it now. You are correct, Chuck makes it look easy.

I have a piece of Herman Oak, so I think I'll cut a small piece and try to dye that. All my other leather is Tandy.

WC, I'm thinkin Reseda ain't all that far from Oregon after all. I'm not sure what you'd do with an aging preacher slash leather wanna be, but I would sure like to take some lessons!

Thanks again everyone. I have both holsters cut, edged, and stamped. I'm working on welts, but I have to go get get a tooth yanked, so who knows what the rest of the day holds! (Ouch!)

   

[Skeeter Lewis]

I've been doing leather work about the same length of time as you, JD. Looks as though we're making the same mistakes!

[cowboywc]

Howdy JD
You're welcome anytime as well as anyone else.
WC

[JD Alan]

Thanks wc. I've been seriously thinking of riding the scoot down to Piru in August to watch the big W3G event. Loden B Quick is our club pres, and he's usually right behind Badlands Bud in the standings there, so I've like to see that in person.

If I get that far down south, I will definitely contact you about a visit. JD

[cowboywc]

Howdy JD
I will be in town. Should be working on a saddle for the Wichita Falls, TX Boot & Saddle Show.
WC