Question for you Colt 1877 Lightning experts

Deadeye Don · December 19, 2008, 07:56:07 AM

This is a quick question for you Colt experts. Did the 1877 Colt Lightning come in 41 colt or just 38 colt?

The reason I am asking is that I just received a Colt Archives letter stating my Lightning was shipped as a .41 colt when it has 38 colt on the barrel and clearly will chamber only 38 colt and not .41 colt. Would it make sense that a .41 colt lightning would have been modified to 38 colt by changing out the barrel and the cylinder?? All the numbers match (frame, trigger guard and back strap).

Trap · December 19, 2008, 09:56:24 AM

D. D. The '77 did come in .41. Sometimes refered to as the thunderer. Strange though that it is recorded as a 41. may add to it's collector value. jt

Marshal Will Wingam · December 19, 2008, 10:10:42 AM

Perhaps the barrel and cylinder were changed out due to wear or pitting at some time. Is the barrel length the same as in the Colt letter?

Deadeye Don · December 19, 2008, 10:26:43 AM

Quote from: Marshal Will Wingam on December 19, 2008, 10:10:42 AM
Perhaps the barrel and cylinder were changed out due to wear or pitting at some time. Is the barrel length the same as in the Colt letter?

Yes, the letter states it was shipped with a 4.5 inch barrel, nickled, with ejector rod installed. The grips looks very original given the wear on them. There is still traces of nickel on the hammer. I have put 5 rounds through it. I hit all of the pistol targets. I doubt I will shoot it again as I dont want to press my luck. I tried to call the Colt Archives today, but unfortunately they are out until Jan 6. Must be nice to have that kind of vacation time. The gun was made in 1878.

I think if it was actually changed out to a 38 colt, it was done along time ago as the patina is very consistent throughout the gun.

Marshal Will Wingam · December 19, 2008, 11:35:10 AM

Quote from: Deadeye Don on December 19, 2008, 10:26:43 AMI think if it was actually changed out to a 38 colt, it was done along time ago as the patina is very consistent throughout the gun.

If the barrel and cylinder were changed around the turn of the century, it could still look original. There are many possible reasons why someone would change the barrel and cylinder. Maybe when it was done, there wasn't anything available in the original caliber.

Lone Gunman · December 20, 2008, 08:53:16 AM

Quote from: Deadeye Don on December 19, 2008, 10:26:43 AMThere is still traces of nickel on the hammer.

Ay, there's the rub...well at least a good clue. Nickeled 1877 Colts DID NOT have nickeled hammers. The hammer would have been blued, with the sides only polished back to a high luster bare metal finish. The trigger would also have been blued. If the hammer and/or trigger is nickeled then it isn't the factory finish.

Deadeye Don · December 20, 2008, 10:16:03 AM

So the gun was likely renickeled at some point, perhaps around the time the barrel and cylinder were changed out, assuming the information I got from colt was indeed accurate.

Lone Gunman, Do you have a good source book I could get detailing information about the 1877 Lightning?

Books OToole · December 20, 2008, 12:22:10 PM

LG will probably refer to the outstanding article on Colt books in the Reference Library of The Shootist a while back.

A History of the Colt Revolver...1836-1940 by Haven
Colt Firearms, 1836-1960 by Serven
The Book of Colt Firearms by Sutherland

Books

Rube Burrows · December 20, 2008, 10:50:14 PM

Am I the only one wanting to see pics of this pistol? I love the 1877 Colts.

Dr. Bob · December 21, 2008, 02:05:16 AM

And, I love the 1878's. I want a 78 in 45 Colt. Just can't afford one presently!

Deadeye Don · December 21, 2008, 10:35:49 AM

Picture

http://i163.photobucket.com/albums/t283/Psychman/ColtDALightning2.jpg

Dr. Bob · December 21, 2008, 03:12:18 PM

That's one fine looking revolver!!

Lone Gunman · January 02, 2009, 07:49:59 PM

Quote from: Books OToole on December 20, 2008, 12:22:10 PM
LG will probably refer to the outstanding article on Colt books in the Reference Library of The Shootist a while back.

A History of the Colt Revolver...1836-1940 by Haven
Colt Firearms, 1836-1960 by Serven
The Book of Colt Firearms by Sutherland

Books

Mike's right, there is no dedicated study of the 1877, so we are compelled to glean info from the more generalized texts.

Don, your picture provides further evidence that your gun has been rebuilt/refinished. An 1877 model mfg in 1878 would have had an acid etched panel designating the cartridge rather than an engraved designation. An 1877 mfg in 1878 would have looked like this:

I can't say for sure when this changed for the model 1877, it may have been at the same time the SAA switched from the etched panel to the roll engraved barrel, the 1878 double actions first sported rolled engraved caliber info on the barrels in 1889. This would be a good time to point out that the double actions featured the spring-loaded cross-bolt cylinder pin release from their beginning, yet the SAA wasn't offered with that feature until 1893.

This is also a good place to mention that neither "Lightning" nor "Thunderer" were Colt designations, both terms were coined by Benjamin Kittredge, one of Colt's major distributors. Kittredge was also responsible for the terms "Peacemaker" for the SAA, "Omnipotent" for the 1878 double action, and "Big Colt", "Pet Colt", "Ladies Colt", "Pony Colt", and "Little Colt" for the various chamberings of the New Line models.

RattlesnakeJack · January 02, 2009, 11:34:32 PM

Quote from: Dr. Bob on December 21, 2008, 02:05:16 AM
And, I love the 1878's. I want a 78 in 45 Colt. Just can't afford one presently!

Dr. Bob .....
Does this picture of my M'78 help ease your sorrow any?

(.45 Colt, 1885 Canadian Dept. of Militia & Defence purchase .....)

Dr. Bob · January 03, 2009, 12:22:06 AM

That it, RJR! Just rub it in and make me feel really depressed!

WOW! that sure is a purty one!! Glad that I am sitting back so the drool won't get on the keyboard!

Maybe some day!

litl rooster · February 21, 2009, 12:03:08 PM

RJ did you recently list yours on Gunbroker?

Books OToole · February 21, 2009, 03:46:01 PM

Quote from: litl rooster on February 21, 2009, 12:03:08 PM
RJ did you recently list yours on Gunbroker?

Probably not. I don't think that he would part with his for love nor money.

Books

litl rooster · February 21, 2009, 04:03:39 PM

The one I seen you'd had to love it a lot to buy it...they was a few extra 0's on the buy now tag

Fox Creek Kid · February 22, 2009, 12:51:45 AM

Quote from: Lone Gunman on January 02, 2009, 07:49:59 PM...I can't say for sure when this changed for the model 1877, it may have been at the same time the SAA switched from the etched panel to the roll engraved barrel, the 1878 double actions first sported rolled engraved caliber info on the barrels in 1889...

That is correct, however there will be some acid etched frames until the early 1890's in 44-40 Model P's until the bins were empty. As I'm sure you all know, never say never with Colt as they were/are in the business of making guns and not satisfying historians. Colt never discarded anything.