Cleaning with Isopropyl Alcohol

[JD Alan]

I've read here that some people clean their leather with isopropyl alcohol before dyeing. I gave it a try, and the picture shows the results. Besides the darkness, it is mottled in places. The two pieces are from the same strip. Nothing else was done to it. It was done a couple of weeks ago, so dryness is not an issue. Did I just use too much? Get it too wet? Any thoughts would be appreciated.   

Thanks, JD

[Marshal Will Wingam]

I never clean my leather before dying. I get good results just doing that and following with oil and conditioner.

[JD Alan]

I did a little research and found it was Chuck Burrows that wrote about using alcohol. Don't think I'll be usign it any more.

[Marshal Will Wingam]

Chuck does get some fantastic effects with his methods. Mine are crude by comparison but they work fine for my applications. Maybe I should try it to see if I can do more interesting stuff.

[santee]

I typically clean first with alcohol (apparently it opens the pores). You shouldn't have a problem when you dye it at this point, JD.

[ChuckBurrows]

JD -
1) what brand of leather?
2) did it sit in the sun afterwards?

[JD Alan]

I bought the leather at Tandy. Oak Leaf Double Shoulder 9052-02. It turned dark and mottled pretty much immediately, and it's never been in the sun. The alcohol says 70%, if that means anything. I soaked it prety good, as opposed to just wiping it down.
down. Thanks Chuck.     

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

Hello JD

     Pard you just want to clean the surface of the leather, you don't want to soak the leather, too much alcohol isn't good for the leather, it draws too much of the natural oils out, just sprites some on your leather and wipe it off, and you really only need to do this if you think your leather is dirty, I've also used Lexoil Cleaner with good results, and for severe dirt or stains, I use Acid-tone, but only use a little, just enough to get the job done, because it too will take the natural oils out of the leather, it's better to work clean, keep your work area and hands as clean as possible, and you won't even need to worry about cleaning your leather, I will sprites with water a lot of times before I dye, just to get any surface dust or dirt off my leather, and by doing this you can see if there is any area that needs further cleaning. Hope this helps.


                                             tEN wOLVES 

[santee]

I put the alcohol in a spray bottle and spritz it like Ten WOlves said.

[JD Alan]

As I said, I got it pretty wet, and it certainly dried it out. I used a spray bottle, taking the idea from Chuck's DVD. The strip had a few black marks on it, and they didn't come off, even though I rubbed those spots rather briskly.

There is so much to learn in this craft, and much of it comes from trial & error. Even then I'm still having a great time, so I'll keep reading and learning here. Thanks very much, JD

[Sgt. Jake]

    JD   First let me say ,I am no kind of leather crafter.My grandfather was,as a kid I was amazed with what he did,and how he did it. When he had small darkened spot,areas on his leather,he would take a cotton ball or q tip and dampen it with denatured alchol and rub the area with it .If that didnt compleatly remove the spot,he would redo it with the denatured alchol and rub the spot with a gum eraser,that usually did the trick. That was over 35  yerars ago ,maybe its the wrong thing to do but it worked for him,just a suggestion.           Good Luck Sgt.Jake

[Don Nix]

Don't use rubbing alchohol.
The result you got is what happens in a lot of cases.
If you want to clean your leather prior to dyeing., use Oxalic acid.
You buy this in  in crystal form from Leather  suppliers ,weavers,Tandys etc.
Follow the directions in mixing. But basically you add a couple onces of Oxalic Acid to a quart of warm water and disolve.
Then using a clean cotton cloth or sheepkin. wash the leather down real well.It works best with well water or distilled water.
Thiis is a bleaching method that will clean the surface and allow for even dyeing.
The spotting you encountered is oil spotts . If you use alchohol, only use denatured .. It works best but on large pieces you will still get some uneveness in color.
I only use it to clean small area. Remember its a solvent and not a bleach so the coloration is still there just diluted and moved around,
Oxalic acid is a bleaching agent..
If I want a natural leather  look I wash the entire project down let it dry and then give it a good coat of Carnuba wax and buff to a high gloss.
This gives a natural leather look that ages well and looks great to me anyway.
If you want to apply a dye it will dye in a more uniform way.

[ChuckBurrows]

Don't use rubbing alchohol.

Reckon we all do it different - I've been using it for better than 40 years - it's just isopropanol (similar to acetone) and water mixed - denatured is ethanol (usually grain alcohol) and toxic chemicals such as benzene mixed so that folks won't drink it.

The idea is to remove the surface dirt, oils, and waxes not to bleach it. But the surface problems are not just due to lack of care in the shop - during the processing the rollers used can build up the oils and waxes used and leave excess amounts on the surface and that can and will at times screw up a perfectly good dye or finish job. It's why Fiebings and others make dye prep (which is alcohol and acetic acid), but it's expensive and if you want to make you're own it's nothing more than acetic acid (lime or lemon juice and denatured alcohol or ethanol).
For me I prefer the rubbing alchol for two reasons:
1) When preparing to dye (the only time you need to prep really) I used to clean with denatured and then dampen with water for better absorbtion - the rubbing alcohol does the same for me with one application
2) Toxcity - rubbing alcohol is less toxic and for me that is a MAJOR consideration. Why - because about 6 years ago I found that I have a serious liver disease and a major cause/contributor was and is the toxic chemicals I've been exposed to over the last 40 years both in the leather business and in cabinet shops. The disease is sneaky and was not caught until level 2 - one step away from cirrohsis (and no I've never been a heavy drinker). The disease is incurable, can only be controlled via limiting exposure, and has had a major effect on my ability to prevent other sicknesses. This is one the main reasons I have been investigating less toxic alternatives. This is not to whine or have folks feel sorry for me or anything like that, just informational.

What happened to JD's piece is common with import hides (one of many reason I use only American tanned hides now) and will happen even with just plain water. With respect  it's not just oil spots - they are often spots caused by either some of the residual chemical salts, copper and iron mostly, that the foreign tanners either use in prepping hides or from their tanks. Another source can be from using tap water which often has chemicals in it that will react with the leather. I know that for sure it's not just oil spots because when it first started happening (when just casing with water),  I had a chemist friend analyze it for me - the first time it was those blue speckles = copper. I later got some black ones and they were iron.

As others have noted I just spritz and wipe off and dying often is not affected by the slight discoloration.

As always others mileage will vary.......and no I do not consider an expert, just an experienced student (48 years and counting) who passes on what works for me, but only after I've used a method long enough to verify my outcome. Is it right for everyone - only you can decide

[mike highgate]

Chuck - I guess not a closely related question but what sort of ratio of alcohol thinner to dye do you use to get the effect you like on holsters?

[TN Mongo]

I've used alcohol to clean spots and thin dye.  The only reason I would be leery of too much alcohol is that when I have used a lot of alcohol to lighten the color of a dye, it seems to dry the leather out.  On a couple of holsters I've done, the leather layers of the welt separated a little when I used a dye cut with a lot of alcohol, even though it had been well burnished before fininshing the piece.  I still consider myself a rank amateur, but this has been what I experienced.

As far as getting the leather ready to dye, I've been having good results putting a coat of neatsfoot oil on the piece, letting it set for at least an hour and then applying Fiebing Professional Oil Dye.  I normally apply the dye with a wool dauber and wipe off the extra with a clean rag.  I seem to get a more even finish when I oil the leather a short while before I dye it.

[Mogorilla]

As a chemist, I will tell you IPA is the better way to go.  Ethanol that has been denatured can be fairly nasty stuff.  As to my own experience, mine is similar to Mongo's, to much IPA to thin the dye and really dried out leather. 

[ChuckBurrows]

Chuck - I guess not a closely related question but what sort of ratio of alcohol thinner to dye do you use to get the effect you like on holsters?

Mike - I have no set ratio - it's just what ever I need to get the color I want but that's just the start and I may use a variety of dyes - commercial and home brewed - as well as aging techniques, some of which are more or less proprietary (partly because if others used them and they didn't work right they'd cuss me  ) in most cases on no two pieces do I do the same thing and sometimes it may take a week or even two of doing and re-doing, hanging it out in the sun and weather, etc.
here's a link to some methods I use: http://www.wrtcleather.com/1-ckd/tutorials/aging-leather-zurl.jpg

As far as getting the leather ready to dye, I've been having good results putting a coat of Neatsfoot oil on the piece, letting it set for at least an hour and then applying Fiebing Professional Oil Dye.  I normally apply the dye with a wool dauber and wipe off the extra with a clean rag.  I seem to get a more even finish when I oil the leather a short while before I dye it.

Mongo that's a method used by even AL Stohlman, but a word of warning - use a GOOD sealer such as Neatlac, Bag Kote, Tan Kote, or some such because as the oil "evaporates" (Mo, you being a chemist, I 'm pretty sure that's not the right word but I reckon everybody will get the idea) out of the leather over the time its brings the dye back to the surface and you can and will get rub off.........not a good thing 

As for drying the leather out with too much IPA - the commercial spirit dyes are so full of worse thinners (toluene for one) that it's never bothered me and I find with Wickett & Craig leather the drying effect is much, much less than with the imports. After dying and buffing a coat or two of Lexol Conditioner or their Non Greasy Neatsfoot usually takes care of any drying.
FWIW - the reason I prefer the Lexol products over any other initial leather conditioners is because they have been specially formulated to stay in the leather unlike the others (and I don't think there isn't a thing I haven't tried from old time tallow to non-animal formulas and I've given them all a good and fair testing) which will "evaporate" off - Lexol will too over time but it takes much longer in my experience.
I do use other "conditioners" such as EVOO, Mt Pitchblend, dubbin, etc. as a final coat but I use it more for the "look" rather than conditioning. And again - Is my word the final one on the subject? no way - I DO NOT consider myself an expert, just an experienced student of the craft with years of experience who is passing on those experiences.

[TN Mongo]

Thanks for the "heads up" Chuck. 

I've been using two good coats of Tandy Satin Sheen and then a liberal coating of Fiebings Carnauba Creme over my dyed pieces.  I'm just a rank amateur hobbyist and I am really enjoying learning from you guys that have far more experience than me.

I'm very interested in Wickett & Craig leather.  I did a much more leather work in the late 1970s and I just started working in leather again when I got into CAS about 5 years ago.  I don't ever recall having trouble finding good leather in the 1970s.  The people at our local leather store are great, but as I stated in another thread, their leather quality has been inconsistent recently.

[Mogorilla]

Evaporate is totally the correct word.  All liquids have vapor pressure, or the point at which the molecules have the energy to escape the surface tension.  Oil is much higher than water which is higher than alcohol, but all will evaporate.