English fire arms in the west

[Knuckles McDaniel]

since my alias has a irsh surname  I was wondering if the following guns were out west between  1880s -1900
 I. E. The Tanter or the Webley.  that the imergrant would bring over. For the  S&W Break tops were rare and  Expensive over the  "pond"
ok am i confused or not
isnt the webley pistol a break top type of pistol?
one that cracks open and the shells eject and then you can load all of the clcynder at on time if you wanted.
you know like when S and W had the moon clips
  with your help I would like to have it in the 1880s era so if this info help out for your sugesstions 

[Delmonico]

There were some brought over by folks from over there and there were some sold here.  Custer had a pair of Webleys of some sort, can't remeber which at the moment.  Many of the early breech loading shotguns were English, Winchester used to import some before their 1887 Lever Action Shotgun came out.  There were also some English rifles used in the hide hunting. 

[St. George]

It'd naturally depend upon 'when' you emigrated.
There were English revolvers in use on both sides during the Civil War and many of the larger supply houses carried other foreign-made firearms as well.

Some were contracted for and feature the Trade Name of the various suppliers - in lieu of the original manufacturer's markings.

Colt and Smith & Wesson both enjoyed a brisk business in England - there being regular trade established - and Colt also had a factory there.
In competing with various English manufacturers - like Webley, Deane-Adams, Tranter and the like - they had to be competitivly-priced.

Now - on the more modernly 'practical' side - some of these suggested revolvers will bring some serious money in today's market and you 'may' find yourself paying the equivalent price for a used Colt Single Action Army.
It's all 'supply and demand' and of course - the best pieces fetch the best prices.
Hell - the once-ubiquitous WWI-issue Webley Mark VI will bring over $700 and more if not altered and those used to be a drag on the Market.

The other facet to this is 'replacement parts'...
There just aren't any 'here' - and precious few in 'Jolly Old England' - and those are 'really' expensive.

I'm assuming you're going to want to shoot whatever you've chosen - and that's not a problem.
English revolvers - for the most part - are built for rigors encountered through experience in some of the most inhospitable places on earth.
But - should you break something, well...

What I'm saying is that shooting them's going to be fine - 'competing' is another matter, entirely, since none were designed for some of the things encountered in C&WAS.

Good luck.

Scouts Out!

[tarheel mac]

According to Robert Elman in "Fired in Anger"  Custer did not have Webely's, but a pair of R.I.C. Bulldogs...not that it makes much difference...

[Delmonico]

Yeah I've read he carried R.I.C."S, Webleys and even Schofields.   Heck if he carried them all he looked likes Josie Wales.

[tarheel mac]

Del,

From what I have read about the man, Custer seems to have been a "gun nut" of the first order...(One of the few good things I have heard about him...) and owned and used a wide variety of firearms in his career.  The R.I.Cs would have been "different" appearing, which probably would have appealed to Custer, and since he commanded a regiment of calvary, he would not have seen the differnce in the ammo (or the ammo resupply situation) as a problem in the field....

[St. George]

The 'R.I.C.' part of 'R.I.C. Bulldog' - stands for 'Royal Irish Constabulary'.

The 'Bulldog' appelation describes a short-barrelled, large-caliber revolver that was easily concealable.

They were made by Webley...

As to Custer's abilities in the field - he was one of those 'driven' men that would continually wish for the glory that had been theirs during a much better-reported conflict.
Like many career Officers of that time - he seriously mis-judged the capabilities of his foe.

Literally - volumes have been written about him - from 'scholarly' works to those paeans to his memory that were written by his wife.

As with anything - the truth is somewhere in between.

Scouts Out!

[Delmonico]

Thanks St. George, as you know from our conversations you and I and maybe a dozen other folks seem to think the real Custer, lies in between what has been writen by those who hated him and those who thought he could do no wrong.

I thought the R.I.C.'s were made by Webley, but I haven't felt like going upstairs and digging.   As you mentioned, I think these arms from Egland would be wonderful for a Living Historian type, but I would not subject to them to the rigors of C/WAS type shooting.

[Knuckles McDaniel]

as  the instigator of the post seems i have to clarify some thing
I am a reenactor of some sort . Im in the movie bussiness also.
My alais is a Irish Saloon piano player in skilts and on film.
but i am looking for a weapon to use  as per my alias  
it will; have Blanks in it if it has any powder at all
so mechanics i/parts getting is  no big deal ,  mostly for show ...
.A Prop as we say in the bussiness
.

[Delmonico]

I ;ike helping a pard with such ideas that get detailed.  I'm not going to say yes carry them or no don't.  But one thought here on this one.  Would a poor Irishman like most of those who came over have the means to own such arms before coming over.  Add the harsh English rule that frowned on such thing in Erie.

When one got over here would one want to own the firearms of the hated British.   Just some food for thought on this.  Now if the perrsona had served in the British Army one might tend to favor the arms one was used to.

Just some added thought.

[Scattered Thumbs]

But one thought here on this one.  Would a poor Irishman like most of those who came over have the means to own such arms before coming over.  Add the harsh English rule that frowned on such thing in Erie.

He would if he had snuffed his Landlord, and then bolted to America 

[Knuckles McDaniel]

ever heard of the Irish Republican Army
Maybe he was one of those and was about to be found out and executed  by the HMS

[Delmonico]

As someone who is a good local historian and comes from one of the centers of the Finnian movement, I'll just let that pass.  There very good reasons why not for such a person with Finnian ties.  (Sean Finn movement, IRA is a later term)

Firearms being hard to come by in Erie, one would be more inclined to leave it with brothers in the movement and not risk being caught with a firearm by someone from the Royal Navy checking a ship.   Yes it did happen.


Also firearms were easy to come by in the US so one would not need it and if it were a cartidge gun, ammo might be scarce.

As you may not know, the Finnians were never known to posses good firearms, when the invaded Canada from New York State, they were mostly armed woth smoothbore flintlocks and were mowed down by Canadians with Snyders.

General O'Neil went to north central Nebraska and founded a town named after him.  They were going to invade Canada through the Dakota Territory.   They had arms buyers in Lincoln, they were caught and the arms confiscated.  Yep Surplus Civil War arms and not the good stuff.  The  cheapest junk the goverment had to sell.

One can see one of the arms on display at the NSHS museum.  A rare Meechem conversion on a 63 Springfield.  Experimental arm passed over in favor of the Allin Trapdoor conversion.  The caliber of this rare arm is 58 rimfire for those who are interested.  I believe maybe 500 were made under contract for testing by the Army.   These were sold cheap in the 1870's.

[Knuckles McDaniel]

as the instigator of this thread I wish not to continue  this one  for i will cease 
I think I got enough info for my exsitance