Swapping hammers in Colt SAA

[broknprism]

[Note after 24 views and no comments:  am I in the wrong forum...?  Any smiths lurking here?]

I have a new Colt Frontier Six Shooter, 5.5" barrel with etched panel, black powder frame, 3-line patent dates, and beveled cylinder.  Almost perfect, except for the most obvious cosmetic departure from an 1880s look: a 3rd gen white-sided hammer. 

I found a new 1st gen color-cased hammer, made by USFA, at Numrich's listed under "Colt SAA First Gen Restoration Parts."  When I proposed installing one in a 3rd gen Colt, the CSR on the phone said the item listing included a note by the [Numrich's] tech saying it "will work in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gen Colts."

I followed up with a USFA tech, who said it will work in a 3rd gen, with a tone that seemed to say "Of course it will.  Why wouldn't it?"

Finally, I explained all this to a Colt tech who said it would probably fit but might not fire, and it "might" damage the frame.

I know the 3rd gen hammer has a floating firing pin that centers itself in the pin bushing on 3rd gens.

I know the 1st gen hammer has a fixed, cone-style firing pin that hits where it hits, but also funnels through a bushing on 1st gens.

The hammer is on its way to me.  Does anyone have any experience with this kind of swap -- has anyone tried to install a 1st gen hammer in a 3rd gen frame? 

Thanks!

[Coffinmaker]

Nope, your not on the wrong forum.  Don't know why you didn't get an earlier reply.

Yes, you should be able to install the hammer.  There is the usual caveat, It may take some fitting.  The only "may not fire" issue is the length of the firing pin.  After instillation, insure the firing pin drops thru the port in the breach face without hanging up.  Check the the firing pin extension.  With the cylinder installed, the firing pin should poke thru the breach face at least half way to the cylinder.  Or, .045 - .050 thou.

Coffinmaker

[broknprism]

Coffinmaker, thanks very much.  I appreciate the reply.

I knew about the usual caveat regarding fitting, and Numrich's has a caveat too -- it's returnable as long as it hasn't been modified.  ; )

I was taking some encouragement from the fact that they sell the part finished, that is, color-case hardened.  It would seem dumb to sell a finished part that would require tinkering that would in turn damage the finish I paid so much for.  I guess I'll find out in a couple of days.

Thanks again.

[Driftwood Johnson]

The 'tinkering' is usually done down inside where you will never see it from the outside. Case Hardened does not so much mean the part is pretty to look at, although they usually are. It has to do with how hard the surface of the steel is from a wear standpoint.

[Tucson Jim]

[Note after 24 views and no comments:  am I in the wrong forum...?  Any smiths lurking here?]

I have a new Colt Frontier Six Shooter, 5.5" barrel with etched panel, black powder frame, 3-line patent dates, and beveled cylinder.  Almost perfect, except for the most obvious cosmetic departure from an 1880s look: a 3rd gen white-sided hammer. 

I found a new 1st gen color-cased hammer, made by USFA, at Numrich's listed under "Colt SAA First Gen Restoration Parts."  When I proposed installing one in a 3rd gen Colt, the CSR on the phone said the item listing included a note by the [Numrich's] tech saying it "will work in 1st, 2nd, and 3rd gen Colts."

I followed up with a USFA tech, who said it will work in a 3rd gen, with a tone that seemed to say "Of course it will.  Why wouldn't it?"

Finally, I explained all this to a Colt tech who said it would probably fit but might not fire, and it "might" damage the frame.

I know the 3rd gen hammer has a floating firing pin that centers itself in the pin bushing on 3rd gens.

I know the 1st gen hammer has a fixed, cone-style firing pin that hits where it hits, but also funnels through a bushing on 1st gens.

The hammer is on its way to me.  Does anyone have any experience with this kind of swap -- has anyone tried to install a 1st gen hammer in a 3rd gen frame? 

Thanks!

Please post up some pics when you finish.  Also, can I ask how much you paid for the hammer?

[Hoof Hearted]

Just an added point:

Be sure (VERY SURE) that the firing pin does not contact the bushing (the frame where it protrudes in the "fired" position). The 1st gen firing pin is cone shaped (fuller profile) and the second and third are "wasp waisted". If you have a 1st gen firing pin it will probably require a swap or some recontouring for your 3rd gen frame.

The reason for the "floating" firing pin is probably to alleviate some fitting issues and speed production.

Sorry for the slow reply I was watching Oprah and eating Bon Bons

[Fox Creek Kid]

I can't believe that no one has mentioned fitting the cam. I'd bet it will have to worked a bit and/or a new cam will have to be installed.

[Coffinmaker]

Well .......... OK, ........... there's fitting the cam and there's checking/adjusting the timing and hand throw and ......... well gosh, there a lot of things I do just on "auto pilot" without thinking about it much.  Unfortunately, when I'm not looking inside the lock works I don't see (remember) all the steps.  Heck, I'm over 50 and it's the only excuse I have and I'm riding it hard!!!!

Coffinmaker

[Hoof Hearted]

I'm sure I'll get flamed for this

Just because USFA calls a part "First Generation" does not mean that it will work in a 1st gen Colt or that it won't work in a third. I have no experience swapping their hammers but (this is my case in point) Brownells no longer sells Eddie Janis' (Peacemaker Specialties) parts and the other day I had an order going in to them. I also needed some 1st gen (Colt) small parts so I ordered USFA parts that were labeled "1st, 2nd & 3rd gen" in their catalog (they are also listed that way by diagram on their website). NOW.......I know the difference but since each little part listing, and I was buying screws and such, said "1st, 2nd & 3rd gen" by the description, I ORDERED THEM
Much to my chagrin most of them did not fir the 1st gen COLT I was working on.
But to make matters worse, when I called the "gunsmith" at Brownells he said, "we have no control over the MAUFACTURERS description"

You do NOT wanna know what manufacturers gun they fit

Here's a link to the USF page on Brownells website:
http://www.brownells.com/aspx/ns/schematics/schemmfg.aspx?schemid=822&m=23&mn=USFA%c2%ae&model=Single+Action+%26+1st%2c+2nd%2c+%26+3rd+Gen.+Colt%c2%ae+
Notice the RED HEADING