Rifling twist rate in Armisport Spencers

[Fox Creek Kid]

...Green Mountain is rifling their barrels for the 50 cal. with a 1-54 twist, this is a departure from the rapid twist used in their BPCR barrels for use with the long heavy 600+ gr. bullets.

I e-mailed Green Mountain last week about a twist rate other than 1 in 24" .50 cal. and they said "no" for 1 in 48" or anything different than 1 in 24". Perhaps you mean their ML barrels(?).

[French Jack]

FCK-- the twist rate you were given is the one in their BPCR barrels.  They are a fast twist for long heavy bullets for silhouette and long range shooting.  The twist I mentioned is for the tapered octogan and round barrels for lever action express rifles, such as the .50 Winchester Express, which is advertised on their website as a 1-54 twist.  They are a lighter weight barrel than the BPCR ones, and are 29" long. 

They have a breech section that is larger than the barrel itself, to allow for threading into the actions.  I am waiting to see if they will be large enough diameter for the Spencer action.  I am fairly certain they will be, but would like to verify that before I order one.  The price is $199 for the tapered octogan, the tapered round is less.

[Herbert]

in 1864 springfild armary did extencive tests to determin the proper calaber for spencer if those notes could be looked at they would give ancer to best twist rate and rifling type or maybe check twist in springfild relined spencers but this could be diferent to results as the 56-46 was proved to be the superia round the genral in charge had his own personal choise.50 express and 56-50 both use 350gr .512 bullet so what works in one will work in the other good way to make a sporting rifle

[French Jack]

Well, just got an e-mail from Kerry Smith, at Green Mtn Barrels-- the barrel I was considering only has a breech size of .940, tapering to .820 at the muzzle end.  Twist is 1-54, bore .500, groove .508-- Just too small to fit the Spencer action.  Not enough to shoulder.  Only way to make it work would be to sleeve the breech end.  That's too much a pia.  Could be made to look like a Sharps Hartford breech.  The barrel is 29" with cut rifling.  Would be ideal if a bit larger at the breech to allow for threading and a shoulder.

[Fox Creek Kid]

FJ, Larry Romano is making barrels and I just sent him a Sharps conversion carbine to be relined. He uses 1 in 36" twist. He can do it. 

[French Jack]

FCK-- thanks anyway.  I will probably send it to Bob Hoyt and get him to rebarrel it and chamber it.  He has the reamer for the 56-50 Starline brass-- aka Taylor's.  He has done several liners and barrel jobs for me in the past, and I will either get it lined or rebarreled with a 26" barrel in octagon and make it into a sporting rifle.

[KCSO]

With a velocity of under 1200 fps and a bullet weighing in at 300+ grains the ideal twist should range from 1-32 to 1-36 but the bullet should stabalize with as fast as a 1-24.  I woldn't want a 1-48 twist as that would be a little slow.  Of couse this woulld depend to some degree on how deep the rifling is and how closly you can fit the bullet to the bore.   

[Herbert]

I was wundering how you got a 1-24 rate the most acurate spencer i have shot was a springfild converted bernside carbine into rifle yousing a 1868 1-42 twist springfild 50 cal barell it has very deep 3 grove rifling i am not sure of orignal spencer twist but i think it is slower than that also deep rifling they shoot a lot beter than armi sports with 1-20 twist the 1-36 i have read shoots realy well with hard bullets

[KCSO]

I said that as fast as 1-24 SHOULD work, not that it was best.  Since i have been building M/L rifles for over 25 years now and have done a great deal of expirimentation with bulleted guns in the 50 caliber range I combined my personal knowledge with my Greenhill's tables.  I have gotten excelllent accuracy with round balls from a 1-48 twist and also with bullets in a 1-48 twist but NOT in the same barrel.  Generally a 1-56 to 1-72 twist is better for round balls and a faster twist is needed for bulllets.  My current bullet shooting muzzleloader has a 1-32 twist in 50 caliber and so far this has proved ideal for bullets from 300 to 425 grains.  If I ever get a 56-50 I will give preference to a gun with a twist in that area.  It is certinaly POSSIBLE to make a 1-20 twist work with enough tweaking but for over all shooting I would prefer a 1-30 something.  Bear in mind that all this is predicatted on Black Powder and a soft cast lead bullet in the 300+ weight range. 

[Hoot-3rd Ga]

Gentlemen: I experimented with black powder loads for the 56-50 Armisport Spencer for almost a year trying to get satisfactory groups at 50 yds. Different powder types, different charges, different primers, different lubes, hard lead, soft lead...........I couldn't get decent groups, so I finally had R.A.Hoyt reline the barrel with a different(slower) twist and a smaller chamber. It will shoot now.   Hoot

[KCSO]

That be Bob Hoyt from the Freidschuts Shop in PA?  What twist did you go with?  Whatever he made for you should be top notch I first used one of his barrels in 1982 and they are all excellent!

[Herbert]

HOOT-3rd Ga i was wudering what your chamber demisions are my original Bernside Spencer 56-50 and my new rifle have near identical measurments measured from fired anelld cases 1 thou smaller for ami sports still chambers .52 bullets easily havent measured chamber lenth properly yet will if i have to change barell

[Hoot-3rd Ga]

Herbert: I had the opportunity to talk to R.A.Hoyt in person about the Armisport Spencer carbine. I discussed all the testing I had done without getting the accuracy I wanted. Long story short .....I sized and loaded several cartridge casings with inert filler,no primer and seated the bullets to the OAL I needed for reliable functioning and gave them to him with the carbine. He had a custom reamer made for the chamber I needed. He also had a few sized bullets from me to get the barrel diameter right. Hoyt is a man of few words, but I remember him looking at it and saying "I can make a tackdriver out of this." I knew once but have forgotten the exact dimensions of the chamber.   Hoot

[Herbert]

that makes a lot of sence get chamber deminsions of sized cases and O/L whith preferd bullet when rapine 350T mould arives i will make a remer to suet still carnt decide what twist to use was hoping you could get some groups at 100&200 posted would be gratly apreciated,made a spencer cutoff it workes great for keeping magizine in reserve but if yousing as a single shot you are beter of opening action completly with magizine emty extractor dosent get in way

[red leg]

I have several of Hoyt's relined barrels and several of Romano,s forsale. I think  the Hoyt barrels are 1 / 56 and the Romanos 1 / 36 . I bought these right after Hoot got his .If you have any interest let me know [ kenger@bellsouth.net ]. Red Leg

[Herbert]

i just checked the chappa website and they now have the 56-50 carbine with twist rate of 1/26 has any one with new carbine noticed inprovment in acuracy i still think it is at least 5 inches too fast rifle is still put at 1/20 interesting to see how much diference the extra 6  inch reduction of twist mackes

[Hoot-3rd Ga]

Herbert: I have a tack driving .50 cal. Romano Maynard #1 which was rifled by Hoyt. Since I am shooting the exact same hard lead, .516" bullet in the Spencer, I figured Hoyt could rifle my repro Spencer with the same twist.   Hoot

[Herbert]

Hoot you have talked me into the 1/56 twist it also should be more forgiving on lead hardnes ,now to try to orginise a 30 inch barell to be sent to Australia