Snakebites in a OT?

Rusty Spurless · December 05, 2008, 10:32:54 AM

Winter is my tinkering time & I have been thinking of trying the Big Lube Snakebites in my OT's.

My question is thus, what is the OAL when crimped in the crimp grove? Basically will they fit in my 38spec OT's?

If to long how well will they work crimping over the ogive?

Dick Dastardly · December 05, 2008, 11:42:35 AM

Howdy Rusty,

You can crimp on the ogive. Snakebite Greasewagon bullets are designed for use in 357 Magnum guns when loaded in 38 Special brass and crimped on the crimp grove. Make a dummy round with a light crimp on the crimp grove. This may leave some nose sticking out beyond the chamber mouth. If that's the case, push them in till they clear the mouth and the cylinder turns free. Save this bullet for die setup. I'm thinkn' you may need to crimp on the ogive. If that's the case your only loss is powder volume. I'm betting that even then you will be able to get 1.3cc of Holy Black under the Snakebite bullet. Plenty for boom and smoke.

Please report back on how it works for you.

DD-DLoS

Mako · December 05, 2008, 11:42:59 AM

Do it...

I have a pair of .38 Spl Open Tops I use them in. Just crimp as usual you have plenty of room. Actually give it a hard crimp you will get more consistent pressures and a cleaner burn. Fill up the case and compress the load about 1/8" and you will have a great load.

Knock yourself out and have fun, they also work great in 20" '73s and '66s, get a nice lube star on the muzzle. It is an excellent design. I use them with FFFg and Cowboy powders. They are very accurate out of my rifles and don't foul like most small bore calibers do with the Holy Black.

~Mako

Rusty Spurless · December 05, 2008, 12:38:34 PM

Much obliged to you pards!

I will order some from Springfield Slim this evening.

Jefro · December 05, 2008, 01:02:45 PM

Howdy Rusty, the OAL of the Snakebite in the crimp groove of .38sp Starline is 1.529. I load these with 1.18cc or 18gr of 3F Schuetzen and an 1/8'' compression. Slim also has a 105gr he made for 38SW. I loaded up some of these in 38sp with the same load, but had to crimp right at the top of the bullet where it begins the tapper, OAL 1.395. I haven't had a chance to load them to the crimp groove or in any SW. As soon as I do I'll post some info and pictures. Here's a few pics of the Snakebite and 105.
http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2825328630102783863VRMqCt
http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2177233100102783863bRpSJE
http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2410113940102783863eQytEE
http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2793489050102783863IOxjZc

Jefro

Charlie Bowdre · December 05, 2008, 01:30:32 PM

Jefro ..or others.

I'm still pretty new to this stuff , but I have been pouring my own Snakebites since DD led me to the light last year.

I shoot the SB in both my 51 Navys ( sort of an OT) and my Win.73 (Uberti) . I have found it to be a great 'boolet' . I shoot for loads about 19gr 2ff g Goex or in my lazy days Trail Boss ...4.0cc.

My question which I hope is related to this topic is...Do you use or is it a requirement to use any wad between the Bullet and charge?? I lube with SPG .Some of my rounds might sit for a bit before being used.

I would be using the wad to avoid any damage to the charge from lube??? Or is that a concern.

Appreciate the reply..remember there are no stupid questions ...Just stupid people . So be kind
.
All the best

Teddy Blue

Jefro · December 05, 2008, 01:48:38 PM

Quote from: Teddy Blue on December 05, 2008, 01:30:32 PM

My question which I hope is related to this topic is...Do you use or is it a requirement to use any wad between the Bullet and charge?? I lube with SPG .Some of my rounds might sit for a bit before being used.

I would be using the wad to avoid any damage to the charge from lube??? Or is that a concern.

Teddy Blue

Howdy Teddy Blue, not a concern, no wad needed, that's the reason for the big lube groove. Plus you'd be taken up space for more powder

. I'm sure Slim or DD can give more details.

Jefro

Mako · December 05, 2008, 02:10:31 PM

Quote from: Teddy Blue on December 05, 2008, 01:30:32 PM
...Do you use or is it a requirement to use any wad between the Bullet and charge?? I lube with SPG .Some of my rounds might sit for a bit before being used.

I would be using the wad to avoid any damage to the charge from lube??? Or is that a concern.
Teddy Blue

Teddy,
No need for a wad, the Snake Bite GREASE WAGON is just that, a "grease wagon." I always get a star of lube on the end of my muzzles (20" barrels). I know one shooter who uses a 24" '73 and he gets the same results. SPG lubed SBGWs do just fine, Slim uses a different lube and his works just as well as SPG.

The time they sit makes no difference as long as you protect them from extreme heat. I tend to keep my loaded Holy Black ammo in boxes bullet end down just in case, but I have never seen any lube migration or contamination on any of my .44 Mav Dutchmans or the .38s we are talking about. Keep your unloaded bullets sealed up to keep them clean. I break Slim's vacuum packs open and usually load the entire package at one sitting, but I have old bullets that have been sitting for years that I wouldn't hesitate to load.

Before I started using the .38 SBGWs I used a 125 or 158 grain cast bullet from a vendor that lubed them with a Black Powder compatible lube, but it wasn't enough lube to make it to the end of a rifle barrel and I got rough fouling about the last 8 to 10 inches of barrel. Because of the fouling I started using wads I cut and lubed myself (made for some interesting smoking "tracer" effects down range) with these bullets. I still have some of these in 125 gr I loaded maybe three years ago and they still shoot fine. I pulled one this spring and the powder was not contaminated there were just a few grains sticking to the sticky lube after compression. I shot a match with 60 or so of these this summer and they did well, but I think they foul more than the SBGWs. I pulled a snake through the bore after every stage with those loads and still noticed a bit of resistance when I pushed a rod through the bore during cleaning. In short I think the Big Lube Boolits are better than my experience with wads and a small lube grooved bullet.

I shoot more .44 Mav Dutchmans than .38s and they are the best thing for any .44 Russian to .44 WCF that I have ever tried. But the .38 SBGWs are a testament to the anti-fouling capabilities of the Big Lube Bullets. Anyone who shoots small bore muzzle loaders will tell you that squirrel gun calibers (less than .40) are the worst fouling. Furthermore the longer ogive of the .38 SBGWs help them in actions meant for longer .357s and yet fit anything my daughters or I shoot in .38 spl.

Best of luck,
~Mako

Charlie Bowdre · December 05, 2008, 02:27:29 PM

Tks for the quick replies. i agree they are a great bullet , I have had lots of fun with the Boom and Smoke . It is great to hear someone behind you when you open up with them and a load of BP!
it sure wakes the crowd up , the grins say it all!

TB

Dick Dastardly · December 05, 2008, 04:05:51 PM

With properly resized cases and lube/sized Big Lube™ bullets there's no need for any cookies, wads or other adjuncts. It's one reason that they are so popular. They load quick and easy and the lube is captive in the grove till it's needed.

All Big Lube™ designs are made for Holy Black. They work well with other powders as well, but they have the lube carrying capacity to keep guns running with Genuine Powder. The Big Lube™ concept is not my invention. Several great pards simultaneously and individually designed the first "Big Lube™" bullets. They shared one thing in common. They haul so much bullet lube that fouling just doesn't have a chance to harden. The Trademarked name, Big Lube™, was my idea. I simply gathered all those great designs together and gave them that name. It has kept the pretenders off and thus has been an assurance that black powder shooters can rely on great accuracy and function without need for frequent cleaning when they shoot Big Lube™ bullets.

Enjoy the smoke!

DD-DLoS

Springfield Slim · December 05, 2008, 09:45:46 PM

Jefro: Why did you have to crimp higher on the boolit? They were already shorter than the Snakebite.

Jefro · December 06, 2008, 07:47:14 AM

Quote from: Springfield Slim on December 05, 2008, 09:45:46 PM
Jefro: Why did you have to crimp higher on the boolit? They were already shorter than the Snakebite.

Hey Slim, I was loading Snakebites on my Lee Turret and I was to lazy to add more powder. Where I've got em crimped gives me the same 1/8'' compression +. I only loaded a handfull to try them out. didn't want to take the time to add filler or powder. Now that I look at them again it might have been fine, it looks like they would have just touched the powder. I might have over thunk it worrying about the possibility of air space. It would have been a lot simpler to just add a few more grains of powder to get the compression I like. The line on the pencil is the gauge I use when loading the Snakebite. Thanks for all the help.
http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2975853450102783863HphvKg
http://entertainment.webshots.com/photo/2956437080102783863eeXWuM

Jefro

Driftwood Johnson · December 06, 2008, 08:16:19 AM

Howdy

I will only add to the lube discussion to say that depending on what method you use to lube and/or size your bullets, you may end up with a bit of lube on the bottom of the bullet. When I am lubesizing on my Star luberesizer I keep a few sheets of paper towels handy. I take a quick look at the bottom of each bullet as it 'poops' out of the press. If it has some lube on the bottom I give it a quick wipe to wipe off the lube. I don't get crazy, it does not have to be antisptically clean, I just don't leave a blob of lube on the bottom of my bullets. Other than than, the lube is completely sealed in the lube groove and does not get near the powder. Any trace amount of lube that remains on the base of the bullet is not enough to affect anything. I cast the 45 PRS bullet, the Mav-Dutchman 44 bullet, and the J/P 45-200 bullet. All my loads sit in plastic boxes, pointy side down. They often sit in the basement for several months before I use them. When I'm at a match, no problem on hot summer days either, I just keep my ammo out of the hot sun. It all goes bang, no problem.