What is "good enough" casting for CAS shooting

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Steel Horse: The high heat allows you to cast properly filled out bullets, instead of some filled and some not, hence the consistent weights. I prefer to cast at about 650 and just cast faster to keep the mould heat up to snuff. It is the mould temp and not the lead temp that determines proper fillout. Either way works but the lower temp allows me to cast more per hour as the higher temp takes too much time to cool. It is all in the timing.

Yep.

I don't have the experience that y'all do, so I'm slower.  The high heat works for me.  I've done about 1300 of the PRS 250 BigLube boolits and I'm pretty happy with the results.

This may be a different topic, but the thing I dread is pan-lubing.  I'm saving my pennies for a Lubrisizer of some sort.  Any recommendations for a type?  I have heard good things about the Lymans.  I've also heard that the dies and nose punches will fit both Lyman and RCBS.  I was thinking about a SAECO, but I've read a few reviews lately, and they do not come out too favorably.  'Specially for the price. 

Any suggestions/recommendations?

[Dalton Masterson]

I have a couple of the old Lyman 450? lubers. Not the current 4500, but the predecesor.
They work really well, and with BP lube, its very easy even with no heated element. I got one of mine at an auction for under 10bucks, and the other for about 20.

DM

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I have a Lyman 450, filled with SPG.  I also have an RCBS filled with RCBS smokeless lube.  Much easier to switch dies, but a major operation to switch lubes.

Nowadays I seem to be exclusively using the Lyman.

[Sespe Badger]

Wow!  Thanks for the great replies, and sorry for the long wait.  My main computer tried to take a cr@p on me, so I've been off-line a couple days.  Don't worry, I'll show it who's boss.

To answer the questions to the best of my ability:  Yes, most of the culls were from early castings.  I actually noticed early on that I was "death-gripping" the mold and eased up.  The mis-cast side-to-side disappeared. 

The whole time I was casting, I was suspicious that my pot was too cold.  I only have one pot right now, and I cast both roundball for muzzle-loading and my CAS bullets.  So yes, the lead is very soft.  With my roundball, I am casting 2 at a time and the pot can keep up.  With the 6-cavity BigLube mold, it seems I outrun my pot.  I have told my wife this is a clear reason to get a bigger pot, we'll see how that works out...(especially with a cranky computer).

I'm a "medium" experienced caster, but almost entirely roundball.  Howdy Doody, Dick D can tell you that I also joined the "broken cutter handle" club.  Since he set me straight the mold has been running smooth.  The post is still around here somewhere.

I haven't tried dropping into water, that sounds interesting.  What about dropping into glycol like the shotmakers do?

And on a triple-side note from the lube-sizer (which I still want to get), I loaded a bunch of those this afternoon.  It was 90+ degrees in my garage and the lube was slipppppery!  Many times I would seat a bullet over the wad and powder, rotate to the next station, and watch the bullet slide straight back up the case!  Mr. Crimper didn't like that.  I added in an extra step of "push the bullet back down" between the seater and the crimper.  Next time I'll try freezing the bullets first...  Or just wait until December to reload again.

[Dalton Masterson]

On a side note on the changing of lubes in the lubers, I have found a small propane torch and a few paper towels work great! Just heat up the casting after you have it all apart, and it will run lube all over the place. Do it outside, or you wife may use the torch on you! Just dont get the parts too hot, just heat the lube. DM

[Springfield Slim]

I prefer Star lubrisizers, but then I do enough volume to justify it. I have a lyman 4500 but I hardly ever use it except for some weird experimenting I was doing. Howdy and all, if you aren't using Bullshop's Bull Plate sprue lube you don't know what you are missing. It keeps the lead from sticking from the mould. You can practically cut the sprue while the lead is still molten, it works so well. And all lead residue just wipes right off it you get any. www.bullshop.gunloads.com  And that phone number  is good for anybody who wants free advice on bullet casting. I sure don't know everything but I do have lots of experience with LEE 6 gangers.

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy Again

Sespe Badger

Here is a reasonably random sample of my latest batch of Mav-Dutchman 44 caliber bullets. Before I finished up I did a quick check and threw most of the ugly ones back in the pot. The one at the left escaped my notice, so it made the final cut. It was probably cast while the mold was still too cool, hence the sloppy, incomplete fill at the top. Most of the others that I threw back looked worse than this one. The fact is, it will shoot fine for CAS, but it's a little bit ugly, so I should have thrown it back. You will also notice that the bottom edge on some of these is less than perfect, slightly rounded. Slim would probably have thrown them back, or shot them himself, I'll use them.



Now if you want to gaze on perfect bullets, check these puppies out. Lou Grant gave me 100 of her Mav-Dutchman bullets earlier this year. They are just so pretty and perfect I may not even shoot them, I may just admire them. Every one of the 100 she gave me is perfect. Crisp sharp edges, complete fills, well defined crimp grooves. Simply beautiful. I dunno if she hand selected these to impress me, I'll bet not. That lady really knows how to cast bullets. I wish mine looked as good. I'll have to ask her what her secret is next time I see her.



As far as lubesizers go, I used an RCBS for about 3 or 4 years. Operationally it is just about identical to a Lyman. Then I broke down and spent the money on a Star. Man, I wish I had done that 2 years earlier. Lube/sizing bullets on the RCBS was a real chore. It would take me all evening to size up 400-500. The lube groove on these Big Lube bullets is so huge they would never fill the first time. I had to raise them up, rotate them around 45 degrees so the fill holes in the die would line up with the voids in the lube groove, and send them down again. Plus with the RCBS and Lyman sizers, you send the bullets down bottom first, then raise them up again to pull them out of the die up top. Much more hand motion. Plus, since you are shoving the bullets down bottom side down, every bullet needs a top punch that fits it.

The Star is so simple it's beautiful. The bullets go in nose end first, so you don't need a top punch. The square ended ram of the sizer shoves against the bottom of the bullet. And with the Star you don't raise them up to remove them, you just keep putting a new bullet in on top and it pushes the last bullet out into your hand at the bottom. Like Lou says, it keeps pooping them out. And for some reason I can get a complete fill on the huge lube grooves in one pass, I don't have to send them through twice. You pays your money you takes your choice. The Starr probably costs about twice as much as the RCBS or the Lyman, but I can run 500 bullets through it in a little bit over an hour, compared to spendinig all evening with the RCBS. Worth it to me.


Sespe Badger:

You don't mention how big your pot is, but frankly, with anything less than a 20 pound pot you will have trouble keeping up with the 6 cavity molds. You will be constantly adding lead to your melt, and waiting for the temperature to come up again. With a 20 pound pot, you melt your lead, then once it comes up to temp adding a little bit of fresh lead won't dip the temperature so much as with a smaller capacity pot. You don't have to spend a fortune, I went with the Lee pot that holds 20 pounds of lead and has the pot raised up a bit off the base. There is a little adjustable shelf under the pot to rest the mold on. I open the spigot, slide the mold along to fill up all 6 cavities, and then as soon as the last sprue stops wiggling I break open the mold. You can produce a lot of bullets real fast this way.

If you don't have a thermometer, get one. Without a thermometer you're poking around in the dark trying to figure out what your melt temperature is, and whether you should bump it up or down a little bit.

[Springfield Slim]

I can run a 20 lb pot dry if the bullet is larger than 200 grains. For awhile there I was casting from my 22 lb RCBS and using a 20lb LEE to ladle molten lead into the RCBS to keep it filled. Even that amount of time sometime cooled the moulds enough to create unfilled cavities. And I hate sorting bullets. So I finally just bought a 1500 watt 40 lb Magma pot. Now I can run 2 -6 cavs at a time with no problems, just keep shoving ingots into the pot. The less time I spend casting and doing unnecessary jobs like sorting the more time I can spend with the family. Or catching up on my leather work. Or shooting. As to a sizer, I have a simple rule. If you use a progressive reloader, than you probably need a Star. If you load on a single stage press, a Lyman or RCBS should do fine. It's all about volume and how much time you have.

[Driftwood Johnson]

As to a sizer, I have a simple rule. If you use a progressive reloader, than you probably need a Star. If you load on a single stage press, a Lyman or RCBS should do fine. It's all about volume and how much time you have.

Slim, I think that's an excellent rule. I load my BP cartridges on a progressive press, and am much happier now that I can keep it supplied with sized/lubed bullets from my Star sizer than I was trying to keep up with the RCBS sizer.

[Lou Graham]

Driftwood, you sweetie    I just pulled them out of the tub on the shelf in the Reloading Palace.

I love casting.  Don't get bummed out Sespe, it takes awhile to get the hang of it and all the rejects come with free do-overs!  Those samples in your pictures might be the first throw (except the one that's high on one side -- never seen that before) and I would put them all back in the pot.

It's very different with the 6 gang Big Lube molds than the little ones that make one or two bullets at a time.

Turn the mold upside down on the pot while it's heating to get the sprue plate warm.  I use a bottom pour Lee pot.  I keep a little pile of 1 lb. ingots right next to the pot.  I don't let it get very low, I just keep adding in one at a time.  If you let it get low, them throw in several, you end up waiting for it to heat up or you end up with voids, wrinkles, etc.  Neither is good.  By adding in one at a time, I can just keep making more bullets.  The temp stays more even and that makes the results more even.

Like Howdy, I never fill all 6 to start.  I start with 2 for a couple of throws, then 3, etc.  I will be getting "keepers" before I am using all 6.  Once you are getting good bullets, DON"T CHANGE ANYTHING.  Keep moving.  Keep the same pace.  Keep the same temp.  Repeatability is the key to having them all come out nice.  

Do make sure your equipment is OK.  I run a check on the screws and nuts before I start to make sure everything is right.  Tiny bit of oil on the pins with a Q-tip.  Easier on a cold mold than a hot one.

I take notes, in fact the boxes the molds come in have the notes on the back for what temp to use.  I run the pot hotter for Snakebites than for MAV's or PRS.  The little EPP-UG's are the toughest to make.

I keep a spare handle for the sprue cutter, just in case.  The lever is part number SC1156, and the wood handle is BM1184.  Yes, I broke my share of them while I was learning how to cast.

I love my Star lubesizer and only regret that I didn't spend the cash the first time.  The Lyman (first one I bought) is a PITA, especially when you have to change out for a different size.    

[Sespe Badger]

Wow, thanks again for all the replies and advice.  It just so happens that Midway USA has a 20-lb pot on sale right now.  I now have approval to buy it.  I'm still pan-lubing right now.  I typically shoot 100 rds a month, only.  Today was an exception:

I took a newguy shooting the monthly match today.  180 rounds of Dick Dastardly's BL Bullets through 2 rugers and a marlin.  No cleaning between stages, and each gun being shot twice each stage.  They were all still running fine at the end.  Newguy is now hooked and looking for gear.  (AND, convinced that BP is the way to go). 

So now that I have to re-load all my just-re-loaded cases, a lubesizer sounds like a good idea. 

But you know, the biggest revelation for me from this thread?  Just because there are 6 holes in the mold doesn't mean I have to fill all 6.

[Springfield Slim]

Sespe: That is so true. I have a 400 grain 45-70 mold that gets way too hot if I do all 6, so I just do the first 4. Easier to keep a nice pace that way. As to sizers, the  Star really is a nicer unit, so if money isn't TOO much of an issue, I would go for it. If not, the others will do a good job too, just much slower. And now that your friend is going to get into BP, you might want to split the cost with him. Just a thought. Over at www.castboolits.gunloads.com they have a video of a Star in action. Watch it, it might help you make up your mind.           versus