Hodgdon 4831 - Anyone ever use it?

[OKDEE]

On the Burn Rate charts, this powder is kinda slow, as compared to the other standard powders that are popular for reloading in the 45-60 and 45-75 calibers.

I was surfing online and came across someone that had stated, that they used it in 45-60 loads.  They liked the way it filled the cartridge up with very little airspace and seemed to be the most accurate load to date, for them.

I have not heard of this powder being talked about and wonder if there is a good reason why.   On the Hodgdon website, they have reloads for  the 25-06 up to the 300 Winchester mag.  I had planned on calling them, but they are open only Monday-Thursdays.

I am interested in what the forum has to say about it.  I appreciate it! 

Cheers,
Oklahoma Dee

[larryo_1]

   I don't know about the 45-75 but did not have any luck in my 45-90.  The best luck i ever had was in my dad's 270 and in my 375 H&H.  I don't know about the new stuff as all I ever used was the early 4831 that sold for $0.50 a pound.  Sorry.

[Grizzly Adams]

Hi, Okee.

I did a bit of research and found an application in the 50-140 Sharps - 125 grains under a 425 grain bullet!  Ouch!

If you have access to Ken Waters' Pet Loads, Vol II, he has an interesting discussion of the use of H4831 in the 45-70, using cast bullets.  Basically it runs in the BP velocity range in trapdoor actions.  If you want/need more specific data, let me know and I can put some of it up.

[OKDEE]

Thank you Larryo and Grizz.


In the Speer Reoloading Manuel, i found this information about H4831:

Originally a military surplus powder, this slow-burning single-base cylindrical propellant is now newly manufactored to meet original specifications.  A very popular powder, H4831 is best with heavy bullets in medium to large capacity cases.

Seems to me, it could be potential powder for the 45-60, 45-75 and 45-70, etc.  I wonder what the original specifications were?

Grizz, is there a load for the 45-70 that you have?  I could extrapolate downward to a good starting place.

Sincerely
Oklahoma Dee

[Grizzly Adams]

Thank you Larryo and Grizz.


In the Speer Reoloading Manuel, i found this information about H4831:
Originally a military surplus powder, this slow-burning single-base cylindrical propellant is now newly manufactored to meet original specifications.  A very popular powder, H4831 is best with heavy bullets in medium to large capacity cases.

Seems to me, it could be potential powder for the 45-60, 45-75 and 45-70, etc.  I wonder what the original specifications were?

Grizz, is there a load for the 45-70 that you have?  I could extrapolate downward to a good starting place.

Sincerely
Oklahoma Dee

Hi, Okee.

I have never used H4831 for anything, so I can only tell you what I have read.

Ken Waters reports good success in the 45-70 with 56 grains of H4831 under a 393 grain Ohaus #45385F cast bullet.  With the Herters or the Hornady 350 grain jacketed bullet, he reports good accuracy with the same 56 grain load.  MV with the jacketed bullets is reported as 1,481 out of a 26 inch barrel, and 1,245 out of a 22 inch barrel.

:-\Good news/bad news:  He also writes that "combustion was poor,  with considerable bore fouling and  unburned powder residue."   In addition he writes, "It's one redeeming feature is the fine accuracy possible with either jacketed or cast bullets."   He suggests a patch between shots, when using it with cast, to prevent damaging the relatively soft bullet.

Another observation that Mr. Waters makes is;  "In those repeating rifles where overall cartridge length is strictly limited however, the bulkiness of H4831 can be a problem, taking up so much space in the case that bulllets can't be seated to the required depth.  Again, like BP, H4831 can be loaded to contact the base of bullets without causing excessive pressures, even in Group I rifles, for which reason it many find some favor."

(pages 486-489 of Vol II, Pet Loads.)

Based on the above information, I am not sure that this would be my first choice in powders.  Okee, do be the cautious fellow you are, If you decide to extrapolate this date for the 45-75.

One last note:  For some reason, Ken used CCI 250 primers with H4831.  I note that, because he used Winchester 120 (jacketed) or Remingtion 9.5 (cast bullets) for everything else he tested.   He did not use the CCI for any other powder.  I am thinking there was a method to his madness!

[OKDEE]

Thanks Grizz! 

[Grizzly Adams]

Thanks Grizz! 

Keep us posted, Amigo.  In thinking this over, H4831 may actually work better in the 45-75 case than in the straight case of the 45-70.

[larryo_1]

Hey Griz:

Keep us posted on this.  I still got alot of 4831 and this might be interesting to try.  The stuff is bulky and you wouldn't need any filler.   

[Grizzly Adams]

Hey Griz:

Keep us posted on this.  I still got alot of 4831 and this might be interesting to try.  The stuff is bulky and you wouldn't need any filler.   

[OKDEE]

Well, I think I am very happy about the results!   I think there is some serious upside to this powder! 

Larry and Grizz, It is the H4831SC powder and I used 49 gr. and 1 paper wad (milk carton). with a 300 gr(approx) lead bullet.
My rifle is a rejunivated Winchester 45-60 with the barrel relined and the barrel is only 23.5" (Utah Special) is what I was told they called the shortened barrel.   

I loaded only 5 rounds and was a bit apprehensive about pullin that 1st trigger.  But, it was a nice push and dot on.
I saw very little fried/unburned powder and have not looked in the barrel or cleaned it.  Too dang hot! 

Here are the stats as I took them!

Sunny clear and hot - about 92+ no wind.

Lo- 1236
Hi- 1280
Av- 1259
ES- 43.67
Sd- 18.19

1st shot  - 1266
2nd shot - 1268
3rd  shot - 1280
4th shot - 1236
5th shot - 1244

Cheers,
Oklahoma Dee

[Grizzly Adams]

Very interesting, indeed!  Numbers look great.  Let us know what kind of accuracy it is giving.

[OKDEE]

I am loading up another group and head out this next weekend and put it to paper.

I will put up some pictures at that time!

Cheers
Oklahoma Dee

[OKDEE]

Well I made up some loads with the H4831SC and 5744.  Both with 300 gr bullets, for the 45-60 relined barrel.

They were all on the paper and most inside the outer ring.

I did not get the paper targets back, as the range was pretty busy and mighty hot.

Also, I am still trying to dial in the new sights I have on it.  A Riflesmith Short Staff HunterTang Rear sight and a Lee Shaver globe front.

My first outing with this type of setup.

Overall I was pleased.  A little unburned powder in a few of the rounds for both powders. 

To get the a regular good grouping, I will have to better understand which front site picture I will need to use, at 100 yards+.
I currently am using the cross-hair.

Cheers,
Oklahoma Dee