How common were Spencers, post CW?

[panhead pete]

Howdy All,

Were Spencer rifles and carbines as common on the frontier as the Henry and Winchester rifles?  Looking at cost and availability, I imagine surplus Spencers may have been as prevalent or more so during the early 1870's.  Also given the Colt SAA was a military issued item, would the conversion pistols have been more common in civilian hands than the SAA during this time period?  Your thoughts are most welcome.

Happy Trails,

Panhead Pete

[Two Flints]

Panhead Pete,

I think your questions are very good but could not be answered in just a few lines.   

For very complete answers from a military point of view, I refer you to a great read on just those questions in Dusan P. Farrington's book, Arming & Equipping the United States Cavalry, 1865-1892.  Great photos and a well written account of the Spencer , Sharps, Schofield  , Model 3 S&W, and Colt, and many other firearms, as issued to the military during the Indian Wars.

Two Flints

[R-71]

I would say very common, I doubt most people of the time could afford the newest tech on the scene so they would have bought the next best thing. The spencer offered a big step in firepower over a single shot muzzleloader or breechloader. I think one of the reasons the spencer rifle co. went under after the CW was the abundance of surplus spencers. They made ammunition into the early 1900's so there had to have been a demand.

Dan

[Arizona Trooper]

I also think that Spencers were pretty common on the frontier from after the Civil War until at least the late 1870s. US Regular cavalry carried them until Trapdoor carbines became available in the mid 1870s. After that they were issued to scouts, teamsters, militia and even settlers when there were indian/outlaw problems. The scouts at the battle of Beecher's Island were mainly Spencer armed.

The entire post war US Cavalry was only about 7000 troops, and there weer tens of thousands of Spencers on hand after the war, so a lot got sold off as surplus. They were going for as little as $3.50 each in large quantities. A surplus Spencer cost less than half the price of a Henry, Winchester or Whitney, and was more powerful until the introduction of the Winchester M1876.

At the September 1876 Younger gang robbery of the Northfield, Minn. bank, one of the first citizens into the fight was Spencer armed Henry Wheeler. He dispatched outlaw Clell Miller, wounded Bob Younger and possibly Cole Younger too.

My feeling is that Spencers were more popular than Henrys, certainly more available. The '73 Winchester and later Marlins eventually displaced the surplus Spencers. By the late 1870s a lot of Spencers were wearing out, and the new guns took ammo that also fit pistols. Still, a lot of folks were carrying a 36 or 44 conversion pistol and a Spencer carbine well into the 1880s.

[panhead pete]

Howdy and thanks for the info Gentlemen.  And Thank you Two Flints for providing the title and author for some good reading.  This is pretty much what I surmised and getting some good references is always helpful in making my outfit "right". 

Kind Regards,

PHP 

[Two Flints]

This article mentions the Spencer's importance in the West after the Civil War.

http://www.cascity.com/forumhall/index.php/topic,14337.0.html

[Fox Creek Kid]

Sorry fellas, but the Spencer was NOT that common on the frontier in CIVILIAN hands because primarily the military owned almost all of them. Yes, there were some, those few that were sold commercially as well as some purchased by discharged veterans or stolen for that matter. It was not until the early 1870's that the military started releasing some Spencers to be sold at public auction. This is covered in Marcot's book. Muzzleloaders were still the mainstay until the early 1870's despite what Hollywood may portray. The Colt SAA production was almost totally monopolized by the military as well in 1874 & 1875.

[Henry4440]

Between September and December 1870 France purchased 44,772 Spencer rifles and carbines and 4,406  '66 Winchester.
The Spencers included both Models,  1860 and 1865.

[Two Flints]

From U.S. surplus, 30,496 Burnside Spencers with the Stabler Cut-Off were purchased by Mexico.

[Arizona Trooper]

According to Al Frasca's research, almost all of the French Franco-Prussian Spencers (and Smiths, and 66 Springfields, and many other arms) were bought by agents of Hartley & Graham after the war from the victorious Germans and reimported to the US. The Burnside carbines converted to rifles by Springfield were in this group.