Confused: Brass or Steel?

[Bryan Austin]

I've read that the Confederates could not afford to use steel for firearms. Remington or Colts? Nevertheless, how did the Confederates get their brass to Hartford Connecticut or Ilion, New York

[Wolfgang]

I don't understand your question.   The confederates made copies of the Colts with Brass frames.  There were no Confederate copies of the '58 Remington. 

[Bryan Austin]

Oh, one quote was on the SCORRS website:
http://www.scorrs.org/

It is interesting to note the brass frame on the Remington revolvers. This was not originally planned for any aesthetic appeal. It was done because the confederate troops were short on supplies and wished to use the available gun metal (steel) for cannons and other weapons. Brass was chosen because it was more available and still supplied the necessary strength in the firearm. Union troops did not have such a problem so all of their Remington's were produced in steel. If you ever come across an original Remington revolver in brass you will now know the reason.

I was just looking at some revolvers made in various towns and cities in Georgia. Interesting

Also, I just learned there was an Nelson rifle? That is from my ancestors. I no nothing else!

[Bryan Austin]

Ok, my mother is a Nelson and she said it was her GGG Grandfather! I gotta check into this!

[Ransom Gaer]

Savvy Jack,

Sounds like you have an interesting little research project on your hands what with the Nelson rifle connection.

I am beginning to wonder how much brass was actually used during the war.  There was some for sure, but it wasn't universal.  You had Griswold and Gunnison and Spiller & Burr building brass framed revolvers, but you also had Dance Bros. and Leech and Rigdon building iron framed revolvers at the same time.  And then there were the imports like the Le Mat which is iron.  I need to get one of those bad.  Also there were a number of Colt and Remington revolvers in state militia arsenals that were used by Confederate forces.

Also out west in Missouri during the border war with Kansas, Quantrill and Anderson's men used their own revolvers and stuff captured from Unionists during raids.

Ransom Gaer

[Bryan Austin]

Found this:

For those wondering why we would adopt a county so far from home, the answer is quite simple. Richard is the great-great-great grandson of  John Daniel Nelson  and  Comfort Jones Nelson  .  J.D. Nelson and Comfort Jones were married at Gilmer County, and it is believed that Comfort may have been raised in Gilmer County, if not born there.  J.D. Nelson was the maker of the Nelson Rifle which was the most accurate rifle of its time and was used extensively by the Confederate armies during the American Civil War.  J.D. Nelson also had a shop at Boardtown in Gilmer County and married his last two wives (whom Richard's side of the family does not recognize) at Cherry Hill in Gilmer County, Georgia.  Further, Richard is descended of the Watkins family, also of Gilmer County.

My mom told me there is one known example is is owned by XXXX....hehehehe, in North Georgia! I'll see what I can come up with.

[St. George]

For an insight on the wartime purchase, use and manufacture of revolvers by the Confederacy - read 'Confederate Handguns' by Albaugh, Benet and Simmons.

It's long been the mainstay for Civil War collectors, and it's well written.

As to the 'Nelson' rifles - no mention's made in any of the references close to hand, including 'Flayderman's Guide', and that extensively covers antique military small arms.

I wish you Good Luck in your research, and would suggest you first backtrack everything possible that might still remain in your family's records and papers, as that may give you avenues to pursue.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Arizona Trooper]

Look up Dickson Nelson & Co. rifle. They did repairs and produced rifles & carbines, both were more or less a copy of the Mississippi rifle. The company was started in Chisca, Ala. and soon moved to Rome, Ga. A fire forced another move to Adairsville, Ga. About 3600 arms "of all descriptions" were reportedly made there. There is an 1863 dated lock in existence, but no known '63 dated rifles. It is possible that most of their work was repairs and rebuilds of old guns. The firm again moved in August of '63, this time to Dawson, Ga., with a brief stopover in Macon. 645 rifles were delivered on an Alabama state contract in 1864. A large percentage of surviving Dickson-Nelson arms are dated 1865, which would indicate that they managed to stay in business past Sherman's march. As with most Confederate made arms, very few were produced and they were never widely used. They are extremely rare and valuable today.

[Bryan Austin]

I'm looking for J.D. Nelson.

For those wondering why we would adopt a county so far from home, the answer is quite simple. Richard is the great-great-great grandson of John Daniel Nelson and Comfort Jones Nelson . J.D. Nelson and Comfort Jones were married at Gilmer County, and it is believed that Comfort may have been raised in Gilmer County, if not born there. J.D. Nelson was the maker of the Nelson Rifle which was the most accurate rifle of its time and was used extensively by the Confederate armies during the American Civil War. J.D. Nelson also had a shop at Boardtown in Gilmer County and married his last two wives (whom Richard's side of the family does not recognize) at Cherry Hill in Gilmer County, Georgia. Further, Richard is descended of the Watkins family, also of Gilmer County.

I think that Co. was founded by William Dickson and Owen O. Nelson.

Too many Nelsons around here!!!!

[St. George]

As a 'Nelson' rifle, there's nothing - but as a 'Dickson, Nelson' - there's this:

From 'Flayderman's Guide'...

"Dickson, Nelson Carbine and Rifle made by Dickson, Nelson & Co.

Total quantity estimated 3600 at Adairsville, Georgia, (1862-3), Macon (1863-4) and Dawson, Georgia, February 1864, to April 1865.

The firm was founded by William Dickson and Owen O. Nelson, and was known as the 'Shakanoosa Arms Company'.

Approximately .58 caliber, muzzleloaders.  Lockplates styled after U.S. Model 1841 pattern.

Finish unknown.  Markings generally of brass.  Stock of Walnut or Cherry.

Lockplate marking:  Dickson/Nelson & Co. C.S. - forward of hammer.  At rear of lock, marked vertically:  ALA./(date).  Barrel may also be marked:  ALA (date), at breech.  Stocks may bear stamping F. Zundt.

Surviving specimens are rare.  Most bear lock date '1865'.

Very seldom seen date '1864' and only one recorded '1863' on an unattached lockplate thus far."

That said - these are pricy - starting at $9,500 in 'fair' condition and around $27,500 in 'very good' condition, and anyone familiar with the NRA's 'antique arms' grading standards for those conditions isn't going to have anything eye-popping to look at.

The above post regarding their probable use as a repair/rebuild shop is likely on the money.

Many of the weapons in storage in the various State Arsenals were of earlier manufacture, and getting them re-conditioned and ready for a combat role occupied a large number of small firms.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Arizona Trooper]

You are right! My wife has some Nelsons in her family tree. You have any relatives in SC?

We have a similar Confederate rifle works story here. Col. Quattlebaum, of an old and distinguished SC family, had a gun works as part of his plantation near Columbia before the war. The story goes that he made high quality and very accurate rifles for the Confederate army. One problem is that there are no surviving contracts. That isn't a complete disqualifier given the state of surviving Southern records. However, the bigger problem is that there are only a couple surviving rifles, one Kentucky style and one a boy's plains rifle style. Both almost certainly date to before the war.

To get back on topic, I almost went out and tried my Remington NM Navy today. It's an almost finished restoration (aka, parts gun), but it's ready to shoot and I can't wait to try it! Well, it's just too hot and the mosquitoes are unbelievably bad right now. The fact that my range is in the sun and surrounded by breeze blocking trees doesn't help. Hopefully it will cool off a little later in the week and I can get out and make some smoke. Might even bring the Whitney Navy too!