Has or can anyone do a short stroke kit on a Henry non Henry?

Ace Lungger · July 18, 2008, 05:36:41 PM

Last year when i was starting to get my stuff to try CAS, I wanted a Henry Repro. but didn't have $1200.00 to spend, while looking I went to my favorite gun store that I have done a lot of buisness with over the last 30 years! The only cowboy gun they had was a Henry repeating Arms Big Boy, A gun with wood on the forarm is not a Henry

But i did like the feel and the sighting system. I don't think they have a lot of luck with selling those and had this one for awhile! I bought it $100.00 cheaper than anywhere else that sold them, so that told you they wanted to sell it!! I have reloaded for 30 years, and never had much of any problem, except for this gun, and it will shoot one bullet type and that is it!!! I sent it in for repairs, super fast pickup order, super fast return, still has the same problem! So I went out and spent $100.00 for new moulds and it shoots that bullet fine! Sad to own a gun that will only shoot one type of bullet

Anyway, I would like a short stroke, i know you can by them for all most everything else, has anyone heard of or done that to one of these?

I would be deeply great full for any and all advice

Ace

Sgt. Jake · July 18, 2008, 08:43:39 PM

Ace Ive not heard of one ,but then again I havnt heard of everything under the rainbow. Maybe some one will see this and have some help for you. Adios Sgt. Jake

Pettifogger · July 18, 2008, 09:18:57 PM

Very few Henry Big Boys used in CAS so there's not much demand. Thus, so far, no one offers a short stroke kit and I doubt anyone ever will. The action is similar to a Marlin and the only Marlin short strokes are not kits. They are custom jobs done gun by gun.

Dirty Brass · July 19, 2008, 08:51:27 AM

Excuse my ignorance, but I have no idea what a short strke kit does. Can someone direct me to or enlighten me on info about this? I picked up a Navy Arms 1860 in 44-40, but it is quite a bit harder to work the action than my Uberti 1866 - seems like a much stiffer hammer spring. Do these kits change springs too, or just the length of travel on the lever action?

Pettifogger · July 19, 2008, 10:22:05 AM

The short stroke kits change the length of the stroke. Since the stroke is shorter the effort required to move the lever increases. To make everything work right, when you put in the kit you must also lighten the stock springs or replace them with aftermarket springs. You can go here and see the short stroke kits and replacement springs. http://www.cowboysandindianstore.com/index.php?main_page=products_all

Dirty Brass · July 21, 2008, 09:38:04 AM

Thanks you for the link to the kits. From what I saw, they aren't listed for 1860 Henry's. I don't know if these are the same as the 1866 model. Uberti guns may be different than Navy Arms too for all I know. I guess right now I'd just like to lighten the hammer tension on the 1860 a little. I'll keep looking around. Thanks again for the info.

Driftwood Johnson · July 21, 2008, 04:00:44 PM

Howdy

Short stroke kits are limited to the toggle link rifles, the 1873, the 1866, and yes, the 1860 Henry. These guns operate by having a pair of folding 'toggle links' inside the action. This design is very old, it goes way back even before the 1860 Henry, to the Volcanic rifle of the 1850s, and the Volcanic was based on the Jennings design from around 1849.

Here is a photo of my '73 with one of the side plates removed. The lever is all the way up, and the bolt is all the way forward. You are looking at the left toggle link. If you look carefully you can see I scratched 'LF' onto it to remind me which link it is. There is an identical, mirror image link on the other side of the receiver, pretty much hidden from view. The link folds at the large pin visible in the middle. The pivot at the front of the link is attached to the bolt. The pivot at the rear of the link is attached to the frame of the rifle. The piece of steel reaching striaght up is the forward extension of the lever. What you can't see is there is a pin that goes through the lever extension and rides in an angled slot on the underside of the rear portion of each link.

In this photo, the lever has been extended all the way forward. Sorry it is a little bit out of focus. The pin in the lever extension riding in a slot at the rear of the link has dragged the rear link all the way down, folding the link. The pivot pin at the front of the link has pulled the bolt straight back, the rear pivot being anchored to the frame. At the same time, the firing pin extension has come back and cocked the hammer. The piece that is angled up in front of the links has raised the brass cartridge elevator up, you can see it poking out of the top of the frame.

Short stroke kits for these toggle link rifles consist of new sets of links. The links have slightly different geometries than the original factory parts. The different geometry allows the links to be fully folded, pulling the bolt all the way back, with a little bit less motion of the lever. Short stroking these rifles is pretty much a matter of dropping in a new set of links. Sometimes some further gunsmithing needs to be done, sometimes it does not.

However, it should be noted that short stroking a rifle does not automatickally make it easier to work the lever, in fact just the opposite is true. Since the lever is not moving as far to open the bolt all the way and cock the hammer against the hammer spring, leverage has been lost, and it actually requires more effort, not less, to work the lever of a short stroked rifle. A good short stroke job usually involves lightening springs and polishing parts to remove extra friction in the action. Then a short stroked toggle link rifle will be easier to operate than a stock gun.

Yes, short stroke toggle links can be installed in an 1860 Henry. I guess I finally have to 'fess up and admit in public that my Henry has been short stroked. Here is a photo of my Henry laying on top of my '73, which still has the stock links in it. Both levers are at their full extension. You can see the lever on the Henry does not extend quite as far forward as the '73.

Before you all think I am some kind of gamer, the reason I had my Henry short stroked is because I hold it just in front of the frame, in order to avoid interfering with the follower tab. The stock links had the lever interfering with my hand. I had Happy Trails install some short stroke links in it. He asked me if I wanted the 'Wicked Short Stroke' links which would have shortened the stroke even more. I said no, the 'regular' links were fine. I don't really know whose links Hap put in, but they were after market links he buys from somebody. As far as I know, there is no difference at all in the links for an 1860 Henry, a '66, or a '73. They are interchangeable.

Now.

the 1892 design, and the Marlin design, and the Henry Big Boy design are totally different from the toggle link rifles. They don't have toggle links in them at all, They operate on a different principal. So there are no links to change out. Spur does short stroke jobs of Marlins, but I believe he actually modifies the stock parts, I don't think he substitutes after market parts for the originals.

There is not enough demand with the Henry Big Boy for anybody to be short stroking them.

Driftwood Johnson · July 21, 2008, 04:11:19 PM

QuoteI don't know if these are the same as the 1866 model. Uberti guns may be different than Navy Arms too for all I know.

Brasspounder

Your Navy Arms rifle was made by Uberti. Navy Arms is an importer who sells Uberti products. But it is completely possiible for there to be enough variation from one rifle to the next for one to feel stiffer than another.

Dirty Brass · July 22, 2008, 07:46:06 AM

Thanks very much for the informative post. I understand them a little better now, and it's nice to know the 1860 is in the same family as the 1866 and '73. You were a great help. I did lay the 60' and 66' saide by saie and check the hammer spring tension, and it is considerably more on the N/A model Henry. This is the spring I'd like to change to lighten it up for now. I don't shoot in any events except where we hunt and plink at various targets for entertainment, but shoulder firing and re-cocking without dropping the rifles down is what we do for speed shooting, and the Henry is much harder on the lever hand with it's heavier tension in the hammer spring. I don't think it needs that much to set the firing pin in motion and tap the primers in this 44-40 casing. I'm learning a lot about these guns, and liking them more as I go along!

I apologize for stealing a thread - it just got rolling and happened. Sorry......

Major 2 · July 22, 2008, 10:42:42 AM

"....I apologize for stealing a thread - it just got rolling and happened. Sorry......"

funny you should say that,
I wanted to tell DJ he did a great job with his photo tutorial (should be a sticky)
I also wanted to ask about that Buckhorn sight on his Steel Frame Henry

Pettifogger · July 22, 2008, 10:46:51 AM

The sight looks like its off a Lyman muzzle loader.

Driftwood Johnson · July 22, 2008, 12:46:27 PM

Howdy Again

The rear sight on my Henry is from Track of the Wolf.

http://www.trackofthewolf.com/(S(jmfny25541dtve45npoboovw))/categories/partDetail.aspx?catId=14&subId=167&styleId=764&partNum=RS-PM-1

It's a little bit chintzy, but it works. It is the only sight I found that is short enough to be mounted normally, the dovetail is so close to the frame. I needed to put a shim at the bottom of the dovetail to secure the sight in the dovetail, it was a little bit loose without the shim.