Evans Carbine?

[Tubac]

Gents,
I found and read the discussion of Evans "Old" and "transitional" models from 2006.
Do any of you fine folks have any information on the "New" model. I have read, or
heard or maybe made-up something about using .44 Mag brass  for use as a single
shot. My Evans' sluggs out at .421", does this sound correct? I see that Buffalo Arms
has .420 bullets. Would these be correct to use? Any help would be really appreciated.
Thanks,
Tubac

[Two Flints]

Tubac,

Check out this link for info on the Evans:

http://www.leverguns.com/articles/blancard/evans.htm

Two Flints

[Tubac]

Two Flints,
Thank you for the link. .44 Mag brass chambers and ejects in my carbine, but I'm puzzeled by the
bore diameter. The link says his transitional sluggs out at .431 .421 seems quite a bit smaller.
Does anyone load for a "new" model Evans?
T.F. thank you for letting me hi-jack this forum.

Tubac

[Two Flints]

Tubac,

I added a number of links to threads dealing with the Evans Repeating Rifle and they are located in the new Evans Often Requested Information)(ORI) Thread on the first page of SSS.  Just scroll down to the bottom of that thread and you will see them.  They might be of use to you, if you haven't already seen/read them.

Two Flints

[Two Flints]

Hello SSS,

A great read on the Evans Repeating Rifle is contained in these two resources:

The Dwight B. Demeritt, Jr. book entitled, Maine Made Guns and Their Makers.  See chapter 10 (X), pages 273-337, "The Evans Brothers and the Evans Rifle Manufacturing Comapny".

The article by Dwight B. Demeritt, found in: The Canadian Journal of Arms Collecting, May 1965, Vol. 3, No. 2, "The Evans Rifle Manufacturing Company and their Canadian Agent", pages 39-59.

Both resources are available and a Google search will find you places to purchase.

Two Flints

[DJ]

For brass, you can buy reformed .30-40 Krag from Buffalo Arms (should also be able to reform .303 British if need be).  I have some of the Buffalo brass and it works.  I find it cheaper/easier to use .445 Win Super Mag brass--CAUTION!  EVEN IF YOU CAN MAKE IT FIT, DO NOT USE .445 WIN SUPER MAG AMMO!  With the Super Mag. brass, I make the primer pocket slightly deeper to use rifle primers, as the pistol primers seemed a bit soft.  I also trim the .445 brass slightly to the original cartridge length, but that may not be necessary.

For bullets, I have a couple of custom moulds that someone cut for me on old Lyman blocks.  They cast inside lubed, heeled bullets.  The heel is .419, and the part outside of the case is .430 (my Evans slugs about .431).  If you go the custom-mould route, be aware that nose shape is critical in making the rifle feed as a repeater.  I tried a short round-nose bullet (the portion sticking out of the case was essentially a semi-circle) and that gave real feeding problems--I had to disassemble the rifle to clear the magazine.  You need something a little longer, and preferable one that approximates the curvature of the spiral guide of the magazine.  The nose has to be long enough and tapered to guide the cartridge through the angle where the magazine/stock joins the receiver.  Also, it appears that the nose of one bullet could, at least in theory, contact the primer of the round that is four places ahead of it in the magazine, so I use flat-point bullets.

For powder, I use Elephant 2F, with a thick .44 card wad over the powder, then a lube cookie, then a disk of wax paper, with the bullet seated on top of that.  I could get more powder in the case by omitting the wads and compressing, but I'm not going for any velocity records.   I use CH-4D dies, which work well.  Because of the heeled bullet, ordinary crimping dies don't work, so I modified a Lee .44-40 crimp die (the one with the aluminum collet) to crimp the flared neck of the case into a very shallow crimping groove.

It takes a lot of work to set up for and load them, and they aren't very fast to shoot, but they do gain you lots of style points.

Good Shooting!

--DJ

[DJ]

Oh, I forgot to address the .44 Mag brass question--unless you have an incredibly long bullet nose, the length of the .44 Mag brass may cause feeding problems.  I seem to recall trying to make shorter cartridges, and they didn't feed well--but your mileage may vary.  You might make up some dummies and try them.  The two critical feeding areas are the transition from the magazine to the receiver and the entry into the chamber. 

--DJ

[Tubac]

DJ,

Thank you for the help! Your bore is .431, does it seen odd to you that mine is .421?
I'll have to get some ,445 mag brass.
Thanks again,
Tubac

[DJ]

Hey Tubac--

Your .421 measurement seems a little small.  Here's why:  The chamber in an Evans (at least the ones I've seen/heard of) are cut with a straight taper up to where they hit the rifling--I don't think they even have much of a throat.  In other words, there is no "step" where the case ends.  As a result, to get decent accuracy you generally need a bullet with at least one driving band having a diameter close to that of the outside of the brass case.

If your measurement is correct, and the chamber on your barrel is in the same form as that normally found on an Evans, you should only be able to chamber a cartridge case with a neck that is .421 in diameter, and because of the thickness of the brass, you could only use a non-heeled bullet of somewhere around .405-.410 diameter.  I would double-check the measurement and also take a careful look in the chamber to see if maybe it has been altered/relined/replaced with a chamber that has a step.  I think remeasuring is particularly appropriate since you say a .44 Mag case can fit in the chamber, because that case would ordinarily be much larger than .421.

             Below is a crude diagram showing the difference between heeled and "modern" bullets.  "Modern" chambers (starting around the 1870's or so) have a little step to account for the difference between the outside diameter of the case and the smaller diameter of the bullet.  That was necessary to accommodate cartridges that used bullets with the diameter of the inside of the case mouth instead of the outside of the case mouth. 

            "Modern" bullet on left                                              Heeled bullet on right


                                                         (posted by Two Flints)

Good luck!

--DJ