Drop in cylinders and Smokeless loads?

Judge Jake McCord · July 05, 2008, 06:05:26 PM

Is an 1858 Remington with a drop-in cylinder safe to fire low-powered smokeless loads?

Jake

Deadeye Don · July 05, 2008, 06:27:28 PM

YES Not a problem at all. Both the Kirst and RandD are made for that purpose.

Judge Jake McCord · July 05, 2008, 06:32:31 PM

Thanks, Deadeye.

Jake

Harley Starr · July 06, 2008, 11:29:28 AM

Would a Winchester 225 grain Silvertip be safe with a Kirst cylinder?

Deadeye Don · July 07, 2008, 06:55:03 AM

Quote from: Sixgun Kilrain on July 06, 2008, 11:29:28 AM
Would a Winchester 225 grain Silvertip be safe with a Kirst cylinder?

This is taken directly from the Kirst website.

"All Kirst Cartridge Konverters™ are precision CNC machined in the USA from 4140 Steel and heat-treated. The cartridge conversions are rated "For Black Powder or equivalent loads only," which includes the current Cowboy Loads on the market. .45 caliber cylinder conversions must NEVER be installed in a .36 caliber revolver. The Kirst Converter must NEVER be used in Brass Frame Revolvers. "

My short answer would be NO. Muzzel velocity is 920, so that would put it above cowboy action loads. I am not sure why you would want to shoot a silvertip hollow point out of a gun made to shoot blackpowder rounds, but to each his own.

Regards. Deadeye.

Steel Horse Bailey · July 07, 2008, 11:23:52 AM

Quote from: Deadeye Don on July 07, 2008, 06:55:03 AM

I am not sure why you would want to shoot a silvertip hollow point out of a gun made to shoot blackpowder rounds, but to each his own. Regards. Deadeye.

Think "Defense" Don.

Sixgun, like Don, I'd advise against it, BUT, if you're wanting to have some to "carry" and not shoot, except in emergency, I think you'd be OK. Those cylinders are rated for SAAMI specs of normal 45 Colt rounds, and I DON"T think that the WW Silvertips fall into the "hot" category like the Cor-Bon +Ps do. But they ARE pushed right to the top, so I wouldn't fire many - maybe a "wheel full" to see where they hit. And I didn't advise you to do that.

You could always call - but because of liability issues I'd just about guarantee they'd say "no." As Don quoted, they are meant for BP or equivalent loads ONLY.

SHB

PS - what few time I carry a single action revolver for defense, it's a 45 Colt with those same Silvertips. But it's also out of a Ruger Old Vaquero. Mostly, my 45s get carried out of a Colt ... 1911A1. Customized.

Deadeye Don · July 07, 2008, 11:49:40 AM

I figured he was thinking defense, but I will stick to my original comments.

Why on earth would you want to bet your life on a Kirst cylinder holding 45 Winchester Silvertip hollow points in a defense situation when there are modern guns out there that would be totally dependable. Sure, you might be able to use them once or a few times with that kind of ammo, but why bet your life on it? Besides, I think Walt Kirst knows what he is talking about with the disclaimer on his website. In my humble and relatively inexperienced opinion.

Steel Horse Bailey · July 07, 2008, 08:57:38 PM

Don, your "humble & inexperienced opinion" has great logic. Keep thinking!

You're right, of course - except for one major detail you may not be thinking of. The BEST gun to carry for self defense is that gun you are most totally familiar with. THAT"S why you might fill your Kirst cylinder gun with some proven loads for self defense: because you're MOST comfortable with it.

And then you use it, and they take it as evidence and it's gone for several years and comes back in a shambles with initials and dates scratched over it ...

Oops !! Did I mention that this is what happened to me?

It ain't pretty.

But it's legal. And it might save yer life or your family's.

Harley Starr · July 07, 2008, 10:02:34 PM

Quote from: Deadeye Don on July 07, 2008, 06:55:03 AM
This is taken directly from the Kirst website.

"All Kirst Cartridge Konverters™ are precision CNC machined in the USA from 4140 Steel and heat-treated. The cartridge conversions are rated "For Black Powder or equivalent loads only," which includes the current Cowboy Loads on the market. .45 caliber cylinder conversions must NEVER be installed in a .36 caliber revolver. The Kirst Converter must NEVER be used in Brass Frame Revolvers. "

My short answer would be NO. Muzzel velocity is 920, so that would put it above cowboy action loads. I am not sure why you would want to shoot a silvertip hollow point out of a gun made to shoot blackpowder rounds, but to each his own. Regards. Deadeye.

Well pards all I can say is "I was just curious". I am confident that I've come to the right people on the subject, and you can rest assured that I will not use the ammo in question in a Kirst cylinder. After all, I would rather take your word for it than find out the hard way.

Deadeye Don · July 08, 2008, 06:39:42 AM

Glad to hear that Sixgun.

sundance44`s · July 08, 2008, 09:06:34 AM

There`s nothing wrong with a 45 cal lead bullet ..it`ll take the fight out of most critters ..If ya don`t like the smoke of the B/P loads ..try some 777 under them 45`s ...alot less smoke , and not too much pressure . I keep 2 Remingtons with conversion cylinders loaded in my safe at all times ....I could be a dubble hand full ..to an intruder when needed.

Deadeye Don · July 08, 2008, 09:13:58 AM

Do you have a dial combination lock or a key pad Lock Sundance?

sundance44`s · July 08, 2008, 11:07:26 AM

Don older strange looking key type...my kids are all grown up and gone it`s just me and the wife ...My gun safe is 3 ft from the head of my bed ..I keep the door unlocked at night while we are asleep ...My blue heeler guards the bedroom door ..I have her back ..
When the grandbabys stay at night , I lock the gunsafe ..keep the key in the dresser .....would have to count more greatly on the heeler`s warning.
Heck I live way out in the country where you can hear pin drop at night ..never a problem here , yet ...I`ve learned never say never though .
My wife shoots her 1858`s with 5 1/2 inch barrels alot, I keep one loaded for her , If I ever have to slip outside at night because I heard something ..Thats what I would hand her .....It`s what she handles best ..
I like big bullets ...they take the fight out of a bad situation better than most .

Deadeye Don · July 08, 2008, 11:40:53 AM

Oh ok. I am glad you keep it open at night. I would hate to think of you fumbling around with a key, having been awakened from a deep sleep with the sound of your front door being kicked in.

sundance44`s · July 08, 2008, 12:48:30 PM

Yea me too Don .. $:-\$
I never have liked the idea of loaded guns laying around ...They do need be in a safe place .
I couldn`t come up with a better way ...and the wife didn`t seem to mind the gunsafe being in the bedroom .
I don`t hear so well anymore eaither ...my heeler sleeps with her ears up ..maybe she knows I don`t hear so well .
Well back on track to the subject of the smokeless bullets in a conversion cylinder ....I`ve never tried them in mine ..just never thought I had a need for them . I have heard the lead bullets will shoot better in these revolvers .