How do you reduce overtravel of a Remington NMA hammer when cocking?

[hellgate]

I have a pair of Euroarms 36cal Navy Remingtons. One of them has considerably more (what I'm calling) overtravel when cocking. What I mean is the hammer will continue to travel rearward after the hammer sear has clicked past the trigger sear and you feel the hammer moving forward as you let up for it to remain cocked. I know that you can drill and tap the grip frame on a Colt to install a set screw to limit the mainspring's downward travel to stop the hammer as soon as it is cocked but you can't do that with a Remington since the grip frame is part of the main frame. I don't want to have anything showing externally. Is there something I can install to cut out that extra rearward motion or make it cock at its rearmost arc?

I put in a different trigger but there was no change. I was thinking that a taller trigger sear would allow the hammer to cock at a more rearward position but the two triggers were the same height.

[Pettifogger]

The hand is what limits hammer travel.  If you have excessive travel after the trigger has engaged the hand is to short.

[bob2ovi]

I have cured this problem by the use of a smell screw in the grip frame under the main spring. As long as the gun cycles fine ,   Start with a screw a little too long and slowly file it down until the cylinder is in battery.

[Pettifogger]

I have cured this problem by the use of a smell screw in the grip frame under the main spring. As long as the gun cycles fine ,   Start with a screw a little too long and slowly file it down until the cylinder is in battery.

You did that on a Remington?  Post a photo.

[rifle]

You could thunk it is a short hand but.....if the timing is alright up till the hammer can go further once the trigger hits full cock as the bolt head snicks into the cylinder notch it is quiit often that the hand moves off to the side of the ratchet tooth and stops against the frame at the top of the hand channel.
Hands are loose in the hammer hole quite often and the hand channel is wide quite often so the looseness can let the hand ride off to the side of the ratchet tooth on the indexing on then cylinder.

If the hand gets trapped against the ratchet notch/tooth and stays there there will be no over travel. The end of the hand could be rounded over some on the contact point that catches the contact point on the back of the cylinder.

A weak hand spring can agravate the scenario also.

An old hand can sometimes be touched up on the end to connect with the contact point on the rear of the cylinder but often a hand a little longer and fit to the rear of the notch on the cylinder to stay there the over travel will go away. You don't want excess pressure between the hand and the cylinders index notch just the exact right amount .

The hand post in the hammer hole can be changed fer a tighter fit so the hand doesn't waggle around so much. A wide hand can be made to be a tighter tolerance in the hand channel if the channel isn't wide enough to drive an old Ford truck thru.

If the timing is right to begin with except fer the over travel a longer hand can make the cylinder want to turn before the bolt head is out of the cylinder notch. Gotta watch fer than. So if the timing is right enough the top end of the hand needs toched up or welded on and re shaped or a new hand about the same length but with crisp end on it will probably work.

Using set screws can cure the symptom but not the real cause but it's up to the owner of the iron to do what he/she thunks need done. Every way that solves the problem...longer hqnd...sets screws or whatever is good to go.Depends on how eccentric one is about things being proper.

I thunk the proper way is to contend with the hand riding off the side of the cylinders rear index notch so once that is proper ...well....things are proper.
One can get fancy and solve the thing with the hammer stopping against the frame but the pieces need timed that way so when the hammer stops on the frame the trigger simultaneously hits full cock and the bolt head simultaneously snicks the cylinder into battery.Three points of contact to synchronize. If that's done when there is wear beginning on the timing parts then the hammer may not go back the little bit more to set the gun into battery.
Anywhoooo....if the hand is riding out of the cylinders rear index notch it will leave a little line on the cylinder to see that it is riding out most of the time.

[hellgate]

Bob2ovi, I'd like to see how you did that. On a Colt you can take the grip frame apart to get the right approach to drilling & tapping without penetrating the grip frame. A Remmie is all one piece.

Rifle,
I'll take the cylinder out, look for that line and see if the hand is riding out of the notch which is quite likely. The gun is a "beater" (like my '64 Impala) but shoots well. I have several Remington hands and maybe even a couple that fit Euroarms so there's some tinkering to be done. Thanks all for the tips.

If it is sloppy could one shim the inside of the hand channel to force the hand over toward the middle a bit? Seems to me that when I had it apart there was plenty of room there (occupied by a ton of black sludge).

[Blair]

Hellgate,

My suggestion would be to look for wear (or too much modification) to the cylinder bolt stop and/or the length of the hand.
Too much on either of these can create or be the cause of hammer over rotation. (Hopefully the bolt stop cam on the hammer has not been messed with.)

If as you say, you have another one that seems to be working well... you may want to use those parts for comparison.
My best,
Blair

[rifle]

Hellgate, I have some old beaters in my arsenal. They are the ones that give a good sense of satisfaction when you tinker them up good and they shine with a nice action.

Here's one fer ya. The hand channel being wide isn't all that much of a problem when you consider the hand rides(or should ride) close to the hammer and all that extra space is just fer stuff to collect and be cleaned out.

The hand can be made to stay close to the hammer regardless of how wide the channel is. How? I'll tell ya Hombre.

Modify a screw to replace the hands screw that connects it to the hammer. Use a screw that can have a shank so the screw threads can bottom out and be tight and then file it. File the head down thin and make a new slot to screw it in the hammer tight.

That can make the hand stay close to the hammer all the time.Just need a die to make threads on something the right diameter and adjust the treads to control where the threads stop to tighten the screw but not tighten the hand to the hammer too tight. Don't want the screw to stick out the other side of the hand hole and impede the bolts leg any.

A Colt can be done by countersinking the opposite side of the hand hole in the hammer so the hand post can be peened over and have the hand stay close to the hammer.


Did I say this right enough to get the idea across the great divide? Typin it leaves something to be desired since I talk with my hands a lot too. She likes that.