New BP Sub

[44caliberkid]

I ran across this link in another post.  Might be old news.  This stuff is supposed to be available in March.

http://www.chuckhawks.com/blackpowder_breakthrough.htm

[Dick Dastardly]

Thanks for the heads up 44 Caliberkid,

I took a gander at the page.  I'm a bit skeptical of their way of marketing.  A new product needs to stand on it's own merits.  The constant trashing of another product would be an alarm bell to me.  I'll reserve my opinion till I've shot some.

We do need all the good choices we can get and this could be one more.

DD-DLoS

[Cohagen]

Like all new products, time will tell.  If all the claims in this piece are true, could be interesting.  Nothing here on CAS preformance, sure wold be nice to see a Cowboy report.

Cohagen

[Ransom Gaer]

Could be interesting down the line, I'll agree.  But in the meantime I'll continue to use Goex BP or Graf and Sons if I can find it and clean it with good old hot soapy water.

The other thing that had me puzzled reading that article is that the problems they were talking about I never had when I shot muzzleloaders.  Of course I shot percussion or flint sidelocks with lubed roundballs and they were always easy to clean, none of this crud they were talking about.  Have these inline people heard of lubes.

Ransom Gaer

[44caliberkid]

   Some of the "problems" they were claiming to have with other products bothered me too.  I really like APP and for makin' smoke in Schofield repros without binding them up, it works great. (no residue)  I've only used 777 in 32 and 38 S&W cartridges and it works fine in those pocket pistols, cleans up quick and easy.   I don't have any modern muzzle loaders or experience with sabot type bullets so I couldn't have an opinion on those.   
   Frankly, my favorite is still the real BP, I don't have many reasons to use anything else.   I don't have the "problems" with real black that caused companies to find a sub in the first place.   My favorite thing about black is I don't need reloading data, just fill up the case close to the top and stick a bullet in it.
   I'll probably experiment with a can of 209 when it's available, but it will also probably end up a partial can sitting on my shelf of powders with the APP and 777.  (I threw away the Pyrodex as I find it to be total crap)

[hellgate]

I wonder if it is easy to ignite with percussion caps or must it have the heavy heat of a shotgun primer to work well? I don't use Pyro in my C&Bs because it is harder to light off and I get delayed ignition.

[Ransom Gaer]

44caliberkid,

Like you I normally prefer real BP.  One time several years ago I was at a gun shop here in Denver and the sales clerk was talking to a customer about one of the inlines and sabots.  All my experience up to that time had been either to use wonder wads or crisco in c&b pistols or to use patched roundeballs in muzzleloaders.  So I asked about cleaning these inlines with sabots and at the same time asked about lubes for them.  I was told the inlines were much harder to clean than traditional muzzleloaders with patched roundballs.  Any interest I might have had in an inline went away.  Truth be know I had absolutely no interest in an inline and still don't.

The only time I had cleaning a traditional muzzleloader was at the Border Skirmish I was at in El Centro CA in the late winter of 1988.  This is a match between two muzzlloading clubs, one in Yuma, AZ and the one in El Centro.  Fun shoot.  Anyway, there was a match where speed was fairly important, so I took my Northwest Trade Gun (20 ga smoothbore) and decided to use a trick the indians used when in battle or hunting.  They would drop powder in the barrel and then an unpatched roundball, prime the pan and fire.  I added one step,  After the ball was down the barrel I would give it a quick whack with my ramrod to seat it.  It proved to be a very quick way to load and shoot.  For every two shots anybody else got off, I shot three.  The problem was the fouling got hard almost immediately and made that old trade gun very hard to clean.

I really think the problems they are seeing are due to NOT using any kind of lube.

I have found that with BP you don't need data to reload.  I do measure when I reload (for consistancy in my loads) and with my c&b pistols I just use the spout on my powder flask.  It measures approximately 30 grains.  It is easy to pour and I get reasonably consistant charges that way. It's so easy, much easier than smokeless.

Ransom Gaer

[sundance44`s]

One thing I like besides that warm fuzzy feeling I get from haveing a case of Black Powder at my fingertips ..I can`t go to Walmart and buy a can of Pyrodex or other Sub as cheap as I get a can of Real Black Powder buying by the case ...The subs have been going up like the price of gas here lately .

[TAkaho kid]

Forget it with percussion caps etc.

Its specificly designed for in-line shooters and 209 primers.

Best regards,

T.K.

[sundance44`s]

It might work in them new fangled brass cartridges though ..

[Paladin UK]

Fer Sundance.........

It might work in them new fangled brass cartridges though

Naaa, they aint never   gonna catch on!!

Paladin (What lurvs his C&B`s  ) UK

[Cuts Crooked]

Wellllll.........if I'm not mistaken......it sayz on the label "Cowboy Action Loads".

http://www.chuckhawks.com/blackhorn209.jpg

[TAkaho kid]

Hello Cuts,

Yes indeed it does say Cowboy Action in small print down there beneath the very large 209 lable. And yes, it probably will go boom with a regular primer. But don't expect great performance or consistency. Again it was developed specificly for the in-line shooters. Remember there is a world of diffrence between a 209 primer and a rifle or pistol primer.

Also at approximatly $45.00 per 10 oz jug its a bit on the pricey side. (.625 oz. X 7000 =4375 grains/33(charge)=132.58 44 WCF cartridges

$45.00/132.58= 34 cents just for the powder. I expect it will go the same way as Pinnical etal.


Best regards,
T.K.

P.S.
With over 10 ft of snowfall this year Iam ready for spring!!

[Dick Dastardly]

Ho Takaho,

That's downright spendy.  At that price, I'd expect better performance than Swiss.   I will have to test some tho.

DD-DLoS

P.S.  I'm planning a necktie party for Jimmy the Groundhog.  He predicted an early spring.  He should swing in the same tree as Algore. . .

DD-DLoS

[TAkaho kid]

Ho Takaho,

That's downright spendy.  At that price, I'd expect better performance than Swiss.   I will have to test some tho.

DD-DLoS

P.S.  I'm planning a necktie party for Jimmy the Groundhog.  He predicted an early spring.  He should swing in the same tree as Algore. . .

DD-DLoS

DD,

Iam sueing Al for fraud. He lied.... Here I ve been driving the daylights out of the SUV and cranking-up the thermostat all in an effort to speed up the warming. I want my carbon offsets back!!

[sundance44`s]

Paladin UK ..Some smart fellow once said ..and I`m not so sure he was talkin about those new fangled brass cartridges ..It`s better to have had love and lost it ..than to never have known love at all ..