How often did they really carry back then???

[Dakota Widowmaker]

I seem to recall an account that the folks who carried "protection" varied from location to location.

Many times, it was just as simple as a derringer in the vest pocket or other that most folks had with them.

But, as far as someone with a big walker or dragoon tied to their leg was not very common at all. Most of all, it was shoulder holsters that were far more common.

Is this correct? I have heard it both ways.

1) everyone west of the Mississippi were well healed all the time
2) everyone east of the Mississippi were much more "covert" about what they had on them

And out of curiosity, just what did folks do with their rifles? did they carry them everywhere they went like Lucas McCain did in "The Rifleman", where he never let it leave his side? Or were folks more trusting back then...

[Ozark Tracker]

my grandfather came to Oklahoma from SW Missouri in 1903,  Oklahoma was still Indian Territory,
he moved to what was the Creek Nation about 20 miles from Muskogee, which was in the Cherokee nation,  He farmed and raised a few cows,
He had picked up a Colt 45 in Kansas, when he came from Missouri,   he said he wore his gun everyday, if he was out plowing or just going to town, said he had an old flap holster to keep the dust off,  he said almost everyone carried a gun.  he said the Indians were no problems, he rented the farming ground from them.  but a lot of outlaws and thugs just traveled through the country,  he said also the former slaves of the creek nation, ( creek freedman ) were really bad to steal.  he said that after statehood came to Oklahoma  1907, counties were established and lawmen were elected and gradually the gun carry became something you didn't have to do. 
As for the rifle, he said he always carried a rifle on his horse or mule,  as far as I know he carried his rifle as long as he lived, laying in the pickup or truck seat everywhere he went.

[St. George]

'Lonesome Dove' notwithstanding - the big Walkers and Dragoons were generally regarded as 'horse pistols' - to be carried on the saddle pommel.

Post-Civil War - 'belt' revolvers were carried 'out West' - but in the more civilized parts of 'the States' - the pocket revolver was common - and the most common method of carry was the pocket.

It would depend on a couple of things - 'perceived need' being a strong factor - and 'location' another.

As mentioned, the more 'civilized' - the more 'Law', and the more 'Law' - the more restrictions.

It was then that the shoulder holster came into use - but largely for the belt revolver, and somewhat later in the era - 1880's being thought to be the time frame.

Remember - the Merwin, Hulbert 'Pocket Army'  was bordering on 'huge' - even though it had a barrel shorter than that of Colt's Single Action Army - and those were common carry guns.

'Back East' - pocket revolvers were very common - being carried in vest, trouser and coat pockets, and many men (and not a few women) carried on a daily basis.

Some men weren't good shots with a revolver, or didn't own one - so a rifle or carbine was carried in the hand.

Folks weren't so stupid as to try stealing a scabbarded piece back then - possessing a requisite amount of both Common Sense, as well as latent honesty brought on partly by education and expectation and also the fact that like any small town today - everybody watched everybody.

It was a different era.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Fox Creek Kid]

...possessing a requisite amount of both Common Sense, as well as latent honesty brought on partly by education and expectation and also the fact that like any small town today - everybody watched everybody.

Having grown up in a town of 2,700 people that is a spot on observation. 

[ColonelFlashman]

One of the items I keep running across are Leather Pocket Holsters that one slipped into either the Front or Back pockets of ones Trowsers. Ranging in size from the Colt's Duke/Dutchess size single shot to the size of a M,H&Co's Pocket Army.

My Great Uncle who lived in N.E. New Mexico carried his Remington Revolver & Savage Carbine every day till the day he died, when he was kicked in the head by his favorite Stud Horse on his small ranch & that was the late '70s when he was well into his '90s.

[St. George]

Those little pocket holsters are illustrated in 'Packing Iron' - by Rattenbury.

The concept is still workable, today - though modern pockets are far smaller.

Originals are good property, since they're not commonly seen, and they were marketed by Montgomery, Ward & Co., and Sears Roebuck & Co. - to mention but two sellers.

Men also were known to have a leather pocket sewn in place of the standard coat/trouser pocket lining.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[ColonelFlashman]

St. George

I was noticing your use of the term "Belt" revolvers. Just out of curiosity, did you know that some company's, such as Remington, had a somewhat different classification for their large & medium frame revolvers?

All of Remington's Army/Navy or large frame revolvers were listed as "Holster" revolvers.

The medium frame revolvers called New Model Police, New Model Belt (s.a.) & New Model Belt (d.a.) were listed as "Belt" model revolvers, as you can see by the latter two designations.

Just wished to know if you had ever come across this before during your on-going reseach, as I have?

Cheers
Flashy

[Fox Creek Kid]

All of Remington's Army/Navy or large frame revolvers were listed as "Holster" revolvers.

I never knew that. I was always of the general assumption that .36 was "belt" and "holster" was .44. However, I always wondered where say a Pocket Navy fell.    Good point, Col. 

[St. George]

Sir Harry,

As a matter of fact - I have.

That's why I'd referenced them that way in my post, since it was the factory's terminology of the time, and it's most apt, when you think of it.

However - over time, the 'belt' revolver morphed into the 'holster' revolver as more folks carried.

Folks wondering about this don't realize that during the time frame - people wore a helluva lot more clothing that they do today - and that clothing was 'accomodating' - hence, the thought of the big Merwin, Hulbert Pocket Army  being thought of as suitable for a pocket.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[ColonelFlashman]

St. George

Excellent, I very much like finding out that others doing the same research as I am, are coming across the same material as well.
Helps me keep that Stiff Upper Lip weathering the Tsunami of Nay Sayers, don'tcha know.

[Zip Wyatt]

I got in on this topic late but thought I would add my two cents.  My grandfather lived in southern Arizona since 1913 and had a small farm/ranch.  He carried a Bisley in his belt - loading gate flipped out so it wouldn't fall through - whenever he was out and about.  He also had a old beat up 30-30 in his truck.  He carried these well into the 1960s for "varmints."  I always got the impression he meant both the four-legged and two-legged kind.  My uncle got these guns after he passed and sold them to somebody.  I'd give a lot to have them back.

Zip

[Ransom Gaer]

Somewhere in a box in the basement of the house I grew up in there is a photo of my Gramma Ries taken in the teens or twenties.  This is in Montana.  She is sitting on her horse and on her hip is revolver of some sort in its holster.  I haven't seen the photos in years so I don't know remember what kind of revolver it is.  She grew up on a farm/ranch in central Montana.

Ransom Gaer

[Harve Curry]

I was loaned a book called Eight Rattles and a Button written by the daughter of Dr. Blun in Chloride N.M. It's full of her childhood memories and stories growing up in the 1880's New Mexico. She recites a story about traveling to Magdalena by wagon for supplies with her Dad, Mom, and brother. This trip took them through some dangerous country but it seems to have been taken as well we have to do it. The Apache Wars were going strong. Other towns and settlements had been plundered and burned. People moved to Fairveiw and Chloride to be closer together. She describes how they slept on buffalo robes under the wagon . Her Dad and brother each kept a rifle in bed to be ready, with Mom and daughter in the middle.  They were really scared when they saw some Indians ride toward them but passed without incident. You can still follow their trail by the place names in the book, Ojo Caliente, Durfee Well.....
When back at home in Chloride each man took his turn as look out on a high ridge (above the town armory house) keeping watch for Apaches. So it seems that these folks had a firearm within short distance, and while out of town it was real close or in their hands.

[Ten Wolves Fiveshooter]

Howdy All

            My Grand Parents lived in the pan handle of Nebraska, he told me he and his brothers never went any where without being armed, he said he usually carried a Colt SAA 45 , in a Cheyenne, money cartridge belt, with four silver dollars stuffed in it , for just in case, is what he told me, when he would take the larger wagon he had for carrying supplies, to town , to get supplies, he would sometimes also take his Winchester 30/30 or his shotgun, his shotgun was a Green something I forget the exact name , but he really loved that gun, only one time he said he didn't take his guns to town for suplies, This was during a draught, and it was hot, and on the way back home , a pack of five Coyote's started following them , and after a while, they came in and started attacking the horses, food was scarce during this time and he said the coyote's looked like they were starving, the only thing my Granddad had was a shovel, so he set the brake on the wagon ,and jumped off the wagon, and went to beating off the coyote's,with the shovel, he said it was a dumb thing to do , thinking he could go unheeled, anywhere or anytime, he said back then , it wasn't like bad things were happening all the time but when they did , it was usually a life or death thing , sometimes he would just have to use his guns to put an animal down, but they always had to be at the ready , where they lived , was too far to be depending on the Law or others for help, they had to be ready to defend them selfs. He told me back then , he never had to shoot anyone , but did have to fire off a few shots to scare off some bad guys , he said just being heeled , and letting people know you were heeled , stopped a lot problems  from getting out of hand , people had more respect for one another, when they knew they couldn't walk on them or take advantage of them , because they were heeled. I guess that would be true today.


                                                                    tEN wOLVES

[Books OToole]

A wise man once said:  "An armed society is a polite society."

In the late 19th century you assumed everybody was armed.  A politness was the rule.

Today we assume everyone is unarmed and........


Books

[Fox Creek Kid]

Today we assume everyone is unarmed and........

sheeple. 

[Dead Eye Dave]

Yes, but I don't go out armed and I treat everyone with respect.  I am a teacher and its all about the parents.  If the kid is rude generally the parents are as well.  And I don't consider myself a sheep either. 

DB

[Black Powder]

From 12 Angry Men:

Juror #11: I beg pardon...
Juror #10: "I beg pardon?" What are you so polite about?
Juror #11: For the same reason you are not: it's the way I was brought up.

[Dead Eye Dave]

From 12 Angry Men:

Juror #11: I beg pardon...
Juror #10: "I beg pardon?" What are you so polite about?
Juror #11: For the same reason you are not: it's the way I was brought up.

Yessssssss!  Thats it!  Treat people how you would like to to be treated.  Reminds of something about a Rule and it being Golden........

And a great movie as well.  Even us liberals can be polite.   

[Professor Marvel]

Regarding the practice of daily packing....
Somewhat prior to 1920, Greatgrandfather Wiley was exercising his authority in his capacity as town sheriff  (somewhere in Nebraska) . Two fellows (described as cowboys, but most likely hired hands) were becoming somewhat rowdy on a Saturday night, and G-gpa' went to quiet them down. The details are lost to time, but G-gpa' relieved them of a colt .32 automatic in a hip-pocket holster, and an H&R .32 long colt double action with an octagon barrel in an overly-large single-loop belt holster.   The lads ended up "sleeping it off" in jail,  an G-gpa' kept the guns. He never elaborated upon it , but apparently discovered a .32 hole in the crown of his hat on Sunday Morning. He never seemed to hold anything against the two. I saw the old pistoles and holsters several times as a callow youth, but they have since disappeared somewhere in the family.
your humble servant
Prof Marvel