Brass Shotshell Loading for Newbies

[Yellowhouse Sam]

Not to ambush a similar thread here, but it seems to be going in the direction of the already enlightened.



I'm way behind you guys but I'd like to try the brass shell route.  I did a search on this and other forums but still have questions:

Are you using the Lee type Load All to do this or do you even size at all?

I also noticed that RCBS has a decapper&sizing die for brass shells, but is it worth the expense?

Another question is that assuming you could come up with a column that fills the case, can't you just do a slight roll on the brass with the crimper instead of the glue?  I have an old antique crimper and wondered if that would work.

How much compression for Goex 2f are looking at?  Pounds of pressure or depth?


Finally, does anyone ever anneal their brass shotshell cases?

P.S. and what is the name of that company that sells all the shotgun loading supplies?  Lost my catalog!

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

The only useful tooling is something to de-prime shells.  A Press is not necessary.

I bought the RCBS 12 ga die for about $100 (Try Mid-South Shooters S'py)  It has a sizing ring and a crimp collar, but the only part I use now is the Shellholder.  I think the shell holder is available separately.  The shell holder allows you to de-prime and re-prime on a press, a real time saver.

You must obtain 11 gauge wads for the magtechs.  For an expedient, use a 3/4" punch to cut your own.  Portrait backing card for overpowder (stack to 1/8") cork gasket material from the auto supply shop for cushion, and waxed milk carton for overshot card.  Other stiff card will also serve.

My own toolkit for reloading Magtechs is;
An old LEE depriming punch.  A nail inlet into a dowel will do.
A piece of iron plate as a surface to re-prime on.
4" of copper plumbing to use as a priming punch.  The end must be hollow or countersunk somehow to avoid damaging the primer pocket.  LP primer on the plate, set case over it,insert pipe, and gently tap until the primer is flush.
LEE measures for powder & shot.  See the other current thread.
Dowel to set the wads.
Elmer's glue to fix the overshot card.

The antique crimper (And who doesn't have one?!) is to roll crimp Paper shells, which were the original case type.  Brass is so 20th Century! (I expect histronical details to follow freely)

What can be done is to use a reducing fitting or the RCBS crimper to put a SLIGHT turn-in merely to make inserting them in your shell belt easier.

Some recommend annealing just the top of the case in order to put that slight turn-in without splitting the mouth.  I have not performed either step myself.

CIRCLE-FLY is your wad source.

[Dick Dastardly]

All brass shot shells can be loaded lots of ways.  The end result can be equally fine.  So, the method does not indicate the final quality.

I load mine on a MEC 600 Jr. Mk-V.  MEC makes a Magtech brass shell loading kit that includes a special decapping pin and a special primer seating cup.  I have these and they work great.  I removed the sizing collar because I simply don't need it.  The brass shells move easily in and out of my guns.

As for a crimp, I use cheep white glue.  I set up a row of loaded shells in a plank that I've drilled out to hold 10 shells and put a dab of glue in each one.  Then I go back with a Q-Tip and spread the glue around the perimeter.  I leave 'em there and go back and load Ten more and put them in my second plank and do the same thing.  By then the first Ten are dry enough to go in the shell box.

I've never had one fall apart.  They pattern well out of my 311s.  I don't always use them, but they do have great style points.

DD-DLoS

[Dick Dastardly]

I should have added. . . .

I like my all brass shells to sparkle.  No point in spending the extra money on nice all brass shells and have them looking dull and dingy.  So, I tumble them in my Ceramic Porcelain tumbling media for Three hours.  They come out looking brighter than new, outside and in.

DD-DLoS

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Not to ambush a similar thread here, but it seems to be going in the direction of the already enlightened.

I'm way behind you guys but I'd like to try the brass shell route.  I did a search on this and other forums but still have questions:

Are you using the Lee type Load All to do this or do you even size at all?

I also noticed that RCBS has a decapper&sizing die for brass shells, but is it worth the expense?

Another question is that assuming you could come up with a column that fills the case, can't you just do a slight roll on the brass with the crimper instead of the glue?  I have an old antique crimper and wondered if that would work.

How much compression for Goex 2f are looking at?  Pounds of pressure or depth?

Finally, does anyone ever anneal their brass shotshell cases?

P.S. and what is the name of that company that sells all the shotgun loading supplies?  Lost my catalog!

Yellowhouse Sam, Howdy!

I use hand-modified tools except for a decapping punch rod that came in an old Lee hand load kit for 8mm Mauser. (8X57)

I have a Bonanza (now Forster) Coax loading press I started on.  It comes with what they call the "E-Z Just" priming setup.  I simply modified (by grinding) the adjustable shell holder apparatus to fit 12 ga shells for repriming.  I used a 7/8" wood boring Spade bit and also a 1/4" bit for the primer to drop 'thru on the surface of my bench to set the base of the shell into and then I punch out the primer.  Under the bench-top I fastened one of those gray 35mm film canister lids and when the black container is in place all the spent primers collect there.  As Sir Charles mentioned, you'll want to use 11 ga over-powder and spacer wads and I (at Circle Fly's tech suggestion) use 10 ga over-shot wads and Waterglass (Sodium Silicate) to seal it.  The waterglass can be found in the horse liniment section at your local Tractor Supply Store for a pretty small fee.  Elmers, Duco and other glues work as well or better, I just had this available.

I did crimp about 8 shells in an antique crimper, but no more.  First, it will eventually ruin the brass pieces in the crimper head.  Also, BP doesn't develop the pressures (at least MY 1 oz/1 oz square loads don't) needed to blow the crimp back out and if not straightened, will affect putting in your wads.  So, no annealing is necessary.  A crimp could be helpful for speed, but most of us who shoot BP aren't exactly worried about times.  They time ME with a sundial!

Don't worry about 'filling' the case - it really doesn't matter - mine are about 1/4" short of the top of the shell.

As for pressure ... I have an old clutch line-up tool I made in machine shop that fits good inside the shell.  How much pressure do I use?  No idea.  I just push down HARD and it seems to come out about the same each time.  A bench mounted drill press could be used for better repeatability.

Sir Charles mentioned about history.  While all brass shells WERE available after the 1880s or so, paper shells were MUCH more common.  The all brass shells didn't really become popular until the US Army had trouble with the paper shells (for the Trench Guns) swelling in the rainy trenches of WWI.  But I use mine 'cause they #1 WERE available in limited supply, and #2 they look WAY cool and #3 are the easiest to reload with BP for a guy like me with no shotshell reloader! 

Keep yer powder dry!
SHB

[Peddler Parsons]

I use Mag-teck shells that i drill out the primer and use 209 primes use a Lee load All for deprime, prime, compress over powder cards and wad and dump shot the cover with #10 over shot card and seal with water glass.  My load is equalscoop powder and shot

[Dusty Morningwood]

I load my Magtech SG shells on my coffee table while watching TV.  Great way to get through the commercials!   

[Ransom Gaer]

The only step I use any kind of press for is decapping and that press is an old Pacific C press.  I got it cheap, but it works.  I use a decapping tool from an old .45 Colt die, I think, that I have lying around.  I may have to get an RCBS shellholder for the priming to replace what I currently do.

There is a local muzzleloading shop that sells a kit for the wads and such for the 12 gauge Magtech brass cases.  The kit includes 100 over powder cards, 100 lubed wads and 100 over shot cards.  After I pour the powder charge into the case I put the over powder card in the case and then compress the load with a piece of 3/4" dowel rod.  I have no clue how much compression there is, but the completed shells seem to work fine.

The lubed wads are about a 1/2" thick and the lube really helps with cleaning the shotgun after a match. 

I use a different method to keep the pvershot card in place.  When I first got my Magtechs I took some 80 grit sandpaper and sanded inside the case mouth, just a little.  I don't do this each time I reload them.  Once seems to be enough.  The owner of this muzzleloading where I get my wad kits recommended it to me.  You sand just enough to give it a little tooth, like you do for painting a car.  The Elmers glue seems to hokd better.  And I do not crimp them at all.  No need for it.

Ransom Gaer

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Ransom;  Does that wad-kit come from HAMMER DOUBLE COMPANY?  My son got me a box of 25 209 modified magtechs from him, and it came with a bag of wads for 25 shots.  He also sells some hand tools for brass shells, but I didn't get them.

I'm getting slowly set up for my 16 gauge 2 1/2" Husqvarna underlever.  I have 2 boxes of 16 ga magtechs.  No wads yet, but I bought a shop-made 14 gauge wadcutter for my drill press.  First time I used a press to cut wads, and I highly recommend it.  1/16" portrait backing, free from a framing shop, 1/8" cork from an auto supply shop, beer cases and milk cartons for the rest.  Oh Yeah; paper pulp from egg cartons

powder    (YA GOT ME!  - but I fixed it up!!)
2 picture backing wads
2 cork wads
1 beer wad
2 pulp wads soaked in mazzola
milk wad
shot
milk wad
glue

This will let me make some noise until my circle fly order arrives!

[Paladin UK]

Fer Sir Charles.........

2 picture backing wads
powder
2 cork wads
1 beer wad
2 pulp wads soaked in mazzola
milk wad
shot
milk wad
glue


I might be interpreting this wrong (Bein a Brit `n all) But,I have never put card between the primer and the powder!!  
Am I missing some learning here

Paladin (Whats gotsta know  ) UK

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy, Paladin!

Yer right, it's a mix-up in terms.  There's NO wad between primer and powder!   

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

I can count on you guys straightening me up.  I had forgotten the powder completely, and then went back in to fix my post - Yeah Right!

I did do it right at the loading bench.  I Hope!

[Goatlips]

BP Pards, I came up with a shell holder from hardware store PVC unions (sawn in half) placed in a plastic drawer liner and hot-glued together.  Works great, the hulls fall right in almost by themselves.

Goatlips

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Always with the great ideas, Goatlips!

Thanks for posting! 

[Dick Dastardly]

ROs, brass pickers and, of course, shooters should take extra care not to walk on ejected all brass empties.  Bent brass makes the shooter cry. . .

DD-DLoS

[Paladin UK]

Fer Goatlips..........

Great idea!!



Fer Sir Charles...

Glad ya took it in the light it wuz given,..... jest fun!!

Paladin (What lurvs the Holy Black ) UK

[Ransom Gaer]

Sir Charles,

These kits are made by Components Plus.  I get them from the Blunderbuss here in Denver.  The website is <http://www.theblunderbuss.com/>.

the package says "For Sales contact Flintlocks Inc"
6929 Beech Tree Rd
Nineveh, In 46164
317-933-3441

Hope this helps.

Ransom Gaer

[Yellowhouse Sam]

Will the little Lee Loader in 12 ga be of any benefit as I don't have a Mec???. 


Have reloaded rifle/pistol for 45+ years....just never got into shotgun reloading.

[Wills Point Pete]

 I bought the loading kit from Rocky Mountain Cartridge. They seem to have grown the brass from seed as it took a while. So, while i was waiting I started loading my Mag Tech shells with stuff I had on had around the house. I used a long nail to decap, I hit the point with a file so the thing didn't punch through the spent primers.I used a piece of flat scrap metal to reprime. I set the primer on the flat, put a 7/16 socket on a six inch extension and use that to tap the hull down onto the primer.

No sizing is needed when loading with real black, the pressures are low enough that resizing isn't needed. Now I did try some loads with smokeless, sizing was needed there. I had a pard of mine mill a hole in a flat piece of stainless steel the right size and I just tapped the case in, then tapped it out with my trusty socket extension.

Since I needed something to rest the case on to decap I put it on a 3/4 inch socket. The spent primers go through the square hole for the 3/8 inch drive.

Now that I have the kit I use it sometimes, if it is buried in a pile somewhere I just go into my trusty junk drawer and use my home made "kit".

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Will the little Lee Loader in 12 ga be of any benefit as I don't have a Mec???. 

Have reloaded rifle/pistol for 45+ years....just never got into shotgun reloading.

Howdy!

Y. Sam, I don't have any specific experience with ANY shotshell loaders, but MANY on the various boards have said that they load their brass shells on the little Lee machines.

As for resizing the brass, Wills Point P (and others) have found that with BP, most times resizing isn't needed.  In my own case, my 100 Magtechs swelled about .005" after the 1st firing, but haven't grown since - or at least I can't tell.  I've used the same shells  in my original (for me) Stoeger, then I traded it on a Tula Hammer Double, and they have NEVER needed resizing.  Some have had a resizing tool made by local Machinests, using a brass slab of about 3/8" thickness and had a hole bored through and the edges radiussed (sp?) and resize their shells with a hammer or vise.  However, I think the ones who did that were shooting smokey-less powder, not BP.  I THINK that they had the holes bored to .795" ( + .001/.002") for normal resizing needs and also had another hole bored to .790" to put the shells back to factory new specs, if wanted, but DON'T quote me on the dimensions.