Percussion Sharps carbine

[Bunk Stagnerg]

I am really out of my area of knowledge and am looking for help.

I have a .54 caliber percussion Pedersoli Sharps carbine with the Hahn modification. It looks like a good accurate shooter the little i have shot it but I could use some suggestions for a 100 yard load.

The bullet is a 425 grain pure lead bullet with a rebated base for use with Charlie's tubes.  I realize a Rapine ring tail is preferred, but the mold I have is as close as I can get.

The powder on hand is FFg either Olde Eynsford or Graf and Son (Wano) in a 1.5" tube.  Swiss might work better, but these are the components I have and is what I have to work with.

Any suggestions would be appreciated. What I am looking for is not a hunting load, but an accurate (3 to 4 MOA) target load.
I am still
Holding Center
Bunk

[Grapeshot]

My name is Grapeshot, I used to shoot with N/SSA and had a .50 caliber Shiloh Sharps Percussion Carbine.  Great gun and I made my own cartridges from both nitrated paper and nitrated cotton sheet material, (old bed linen).
To start out I got the correct paper cartridge kit from Dixie Gun Works.  It included a mandrel that was the same diameter as my bullet, a small pad of nitrated paper and a glue stick.
I found out the hard way that the best way to make the cartridge was to make the tube the length of the chamber so the end would be flush with the breech end of the barrel.
To do this so you DO NOT have a tail to shear off when you close the breech block is to add this step.
Once you have your paper/linen cut to the proper length and width take a one inch square of silicone eye glass cleaning tissue.  (I use this because it is stronger than TP and super thin.)  Apply the one inch square to the end of the mandrel and form a cup.  Fold it against the mandrel and apply glue from the glue stick on one short end of the precut paper and along one edge.  Take the precut paper and lay the unglued side against the mandrel making sure that the glued short end is applied against the silicone paper cup on the end of the mandrel.  As you wrap the paper around the mandrel snugly the glued edge will overlap the precut paper and form a tube with one end closed.
Put this aside.  Repeat these steps until you have as many as you want or need.
Once the glue is dried, pour in a .7 cc Lee dipper full of 4Fg or 3Fg.  This is your ignition charge.  The pour in the amount of powder you plan to use leaving enough room to seat your bullet into the tube.  At this point I would run a bead of Testors model airplane glue around the circumference of the paper/bullet juncture.
After letting everything dry, I would load them into the chamber and thumb them in until the end of the cartridge was flush with the breech.
Close the breech block and put the cap on the nipple.
When the trigger was squeezed, the hammer would fall setting off the cap.
The fire will then pierce the silicone paper and ignite the ignition charge which will ignite the main charge.  Somewhat like the bag charge in modern day 155mm howitzers. The Nitrated paper would be consumed and leave nothing in the chamber but some ash.  I never had and burning embers using the nitrated paper.  If you don't use the nitrated paper, you risk having glowing embers in the chamber that could ignite the next cartridge you chamber.  That is not fun, especially in the heat of competition when you are shooting in a team match trying to cut a pole in half before the other team does.
When done like this, I never had a misfire with my Sharps.
Nitrated Paper and Bed Sheet Material:
I used typing paper that had a 25% rag content and old sheet the wife was going to throw out.
I cut the sheet into 8.5 inch x 11 inch sheets.  Using a ball point pen and a straight edge, (a steel 12 inch ruler is best) I would draw lines that, when I cut the sheets later, would give me the correct size rectangles to form the cartridge tubes.  Be sure to use a pen that has waterproof ink.
I used a large Pyrex casserole dish to put the sheets (paper or cotton) into it and boiled up 2 cups of water in a separate sauce pan.  Buy a new one so your wife doesn't have a fit about ruining her cooking utensils.  As the water boiled I added Potassium Nitrate I got from the pharmacy and poured it into the water until I couldn't get it to dissolve any more.  I then poured the super saturated solution into the Pyrex dish and let it sit for a half hour.  This gave the sheets ample time to absorb the Potassium Nitrate from the super saturated solution.
After the solution cooled, I took the sheets out and hung them in the shower to dry.  Once dry, I smoothed them out on a smooth plastic cutting board and cut them to the correct size for my carbine.
I stored them in an airtight/water tight ammo can until I was ready to make them into cartridges.  I stored the completed cartridges in the same ammo can in a small plastic container that I bought at the Grocery store that were sold to store leftovers.

[Bunk Stagnerg]

Thanks Grapeshot what i am doing is about the same thing but using the Charlie Hahn cartridge tubes.They are a lot faster that making the paper (period correct) cartridges. I am familiar with the method you used including ones made from very thin nitrated linen cloth savaged from old cloth blue print masters.

Frankly that game is not worth the candle so I will stick with the pre made  paper tube system.

From the 20 or so rounds I have shot they seem to work well and make a fairly substantial and reliable cartridge. The final step is dipping the bullet in melted lube which leaves a nice moist fouling that wipes out with a couple of wet patches.
Thanks again
Bunk

[GunMonkey]

I too have used 1.5" tubes from Charlie in an early IAB Sharps. I had success with 44g of 2F Old Eynesford. Less then 42g and I wasn't getting a complete burn of the tube.

[Bunk Stagnerg]

Hello Gun Monkey
Thanks for the information since I am new to this Sharps loading business.

Presently I am using 3.1c/c volume of FFg either Graf or Olde Eynsford with good success. I will weigh the charge but it is close to the 44 grains weight. I did notice some pieces of tube left in the bore and I asked Mr. Hahn about it. His reply was "shoot them out" which I have done with no ill effects.

This morning I sighted in the rifle at 100 yards and after 21 rounds the breech block was still fairly easy to open.  My guess is I could have gotten off more, but it was noon and time to eat. Still having ignition with CCI musket caps but the German Dynamit Nobel caps seem to be a bit hotter and give good fast ignition.

The next test is Grapeshot's idea of a small amount (,7c/c) of FFFg in the base followed by the main charge. Plain curler paper is what I am using for the bottom end cap and a 425 grain bullet.

Thanks again for the help any other ideas or tips will be gratefully received.
Hold center
Bunk

[PJ Hardtack]

I've got both the .50 Shiloh '63 MR and Carbine.

I've used paper cartridges made out of typewriter paper, coloured comics, onion skin (nitrated and not). I found the nitrating more trouble than it was worth.

Before inserting the next cartridge, I got into the habit of looking and blowing into the chamber. Never had a problem. Once in a while I'd see a bit of surviving paper and on pulling it out, it would be where the glue overlap was.

Folding and twisting the paper would have prevented that.

[Bunk Stagnerg]

Thanks for all the information guys. i did have enough dry days to get a center zero for 100 yards which is about my max distance to shoot.

We have had a most twp weeks of constant rain here in Fayette county and my range is a quagmire. When it drys out in a month or so i will put this knowledge to use.

In the meantime i am putting ends in tubes.

i did find some RWS (German) caps for a ridiculous price but if they work that will be cheaper than using 3 or four of those CCI caps which weren't a big bargain either.

I did find that by sweetening  the primer compound with a little of DuPont's finest  FFFFG stuck to the inside bottom of the cap with clear nail polish they seemed to work pretty good, but what a PITA job.

I guess a case of desperate men make desperate moves...right?
Hold center
Bunk

[Professor Marvel]

Still having ignition with CCI musket caps but the German Dynamit Nobel caps seem to be a bit hotter and give good fast ignition.
Bunk

The breechblock on Your Pedersoli is most likely clear of steel shavings, iron hangnails and other crud ( unlike my IAB Sharps before I performed a remedial root canal on the breechblock) . Thus I too would like to suggest that your CCI musket caps are the most likely culprit, since I bought a half-dozen off the rack at the LGS before I unfortunately discovered the blasted things are marked "re-enactor" which actually equates to a cheaper reduced load....

adding  a bit of 4F powder either under the cap or in the end of the load might be the answer.... it's a darn sight better than trying to formulate some priming compound :-( .

altho I still have soem german made "big bang" toy paper caps I could try sticking one of those under the Musket cap....

Regarding your load - if you carefully match bullet weight, diameter, and weight to what your rifle prefers, you will probably find a load between 45-65 Gr 2F that gives you good groups, perhaps even 2" at 100 yds. Playing about with my IAB, I was loading 65gr in paper cartridges and my marksman buddy was keeping them all on a coffee can at 250 yds.

Later I subjected all attending to loads of 95gr of loose 3F , behind a 500 gr skirted mini . the accuracy was good, but their shoulders were not. BTW the blow-by from the breech blew one fellows ball-cap clean off and skortched a line on my hat brim.

Eye protection is a must!

yhs
prof (stay safe) marvel

[Bunk Stagnerg]

Problem solved!

I was getting a new tin of those CCI musket caps out of the carton and noticed (for the first time) in itsy-bitty- tiny letters on the side of the box
"FOR RE-ENACTORS"

Now I really feel like a fool, but I never knew such a thing existed. There was nothing on the in only on the carton. I do have a good supply of Dynamit Nobel German caps so I am in business.

Anybody know someone in central Texas that can use them let me know
Bunk