Colt New Service Model

[Bill Mc Call]

Hi Guys

A question for all the brains around the fire,

A neightbor of mine show me today a revolver that looks to be a "Colt New Service Model" .45Lc or .455 Eley  looks pretty good and works fine (dry), the revolver came from his mother' s home, she got it since WWII , wraped in oiled cloth and spend the time in a drawer untill the last days, someone will buy the gun, do I have to tell you  I' m intersted too, as soon as I saw it  , well........ nobody knows the worth of it, it' s not a clone or copy it' s a period original, seems to be 1901.

Any kind of help would be greatly appreciated

Bill

[St. George]

Without actually viewing the piece or knowing its serial number - not much can be offered by way of advice.

The Colt 'New Service' revolver came about in 1898.

It's a large-frame double action, built for large-caliber ammunition, and is 'legal in NCOWS.

Here's a synopsis:

Old Model - 1898-1909 - standard frame - #0 - 21,000

Target Model - 1900-1909

1909 Transition Model - standard and Target - #21,000 - 23,000

Improved Model, standard and Target - 1909-1917 - #23,000-143,000

1909 U.S. Military/1914 British Military - 1914-1917 - #65,000-139,000

1917 U.S. Army - 1917-1919 - #150,000-305,000

Improved Model - standard and Target - 1919-1928 - #303,000-328,000

Late Model - standard and Target - 1928 - End of Production - #328,000 - 356,914

A look at the 'Blue Book' and on the various auction sites will show prices all over the range - so condition is paramount.

If it's parkerized - it's a WWII-refinished piece - if it's 'brush blue - it's a WWI piece, if military.

Other finishes were Colt's commercial blue in use at the time, with a few in nickel.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Bill Mc Call]

Howdy St George

Thanks for the quick answer, I brought the gun home today and took a pic of it ( see below) it' s a .455 eley 4 1/2 barrel serial #128107 far from "mint condition" as you can see, few stains inside the barrel grips corners broken and a few other things but I think it would be possible to give it a much better condition with a lot of swet and grease elbow 

The back of the cylindre seems to be untouched, I' ve read somewhere that the Colt case rims are thiker as the Eley and needs more room between the cylinder and the frame, so the cylinder have to be plane down.

Let me know what you think about


Thanks again
Bill

[St. George]

The serial number places it in the 1916 production run for the British Contract.

The wartime New Services in .455 can be identified by an 'E' on the frame - under the left grip - and there are a myriad of inspection marks and ownership marks that were used.

The grips 'can' be repaired - or they can be replaced by ones made by 'Vintage Gun Grips' - www.vintagegungrips.com - and they make an excellent replacement grip.

A 'thorough' and careful cleaning can return it to a much better overall condition, and if you're patient - and don't have a love of power tools - you can do it over the winter.

As to cutting the cylinder - you can find .455 brass, and I'd suggest you do.

Too many New Services and Triple-Locks that saw honorable service with the British have been ruined by 'converting' them.

Try 'Starline' brass - I understand that their case rim is a bit thinner.

Other than that - see about lock-up and cylinder movement as you would with any double-action revolver, and try it's 'feel' after you've put a couple of drops of oil on the moving components.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Bill Mc Call]

Thanks for the Infos St George, think to go for it, will give me occupation trough the winter time, there is no emergency to bring it back to life, I still have my Rems '58 and '75 for shooting.

See you

Bill

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Bill;  I agree with St. George.  Keep it in .455. 

Do you have access to Fiocchi ammo in Belgium?  They did make boxer primed ammo in .455 and .450 CORTO that will fit.  .45 Colt cases can be shortened and the rims thinned to about .035 from the front. If you have access to a lathe you will be OK.  I have done it with a triangular file, but you spend more time than it might be worth.

The Colt will accept .455 MK I cases that are .87 inch long.  I use cases shortened to .45 ACP length (.89) in my Webley MK VI.  If you can get .45 Cowboy Special cases, the only alteration required would be to thin the rims.

Don't bother with .455 MK II military surplus ammo.  It has jacketed bullets, is berdan primed, probably corrosive, and is generally inaccurate.

[Virginia Gentleman]

Excellent advice about thinning the rims on .45 Cowboy, but make sure the rims are thinned from the front of the rim and not the rear.  Hornady and Fiocchi make loaded ammo with lead bullets and Lee makes some very affordable dies for the .455 Eley/Webley.  Use bullets sized to .454 to .455" for maximum accuracy.  Cowboy alloys or softer work best.

[Joe LeFors]

Greetings to all, and especially to Bill Mc Call for prompting me to post my first message here.

I have a Colt's New Service very similar to what you describe and picture.  It was made in 1914 and is marked "New Service 455 Eley" on a 5 1/2 inch barrel.  It was the first sidearm I carried as a lawman a LONG time ago, so allow me to share this with you.

Before you do anything to that cylinder, look and see how deep the chambers are reamed.  As I said, mine is marked as a .455, but it had been converted to chamber .45 Colt ammunition.  The chamber shoulders were almost to the front of the cylinder, not half way as they would have been for the .455 cartridge.  The back of the cylinder still had proof marks between each chamber, but each had been very slightly countersunk, like old S&W magnums, to accept the thicker rims of the Colt cartridge.  The alteration was more obvious on the extraxtor than on the cylinder itself.

In looking at the photo you have posted, I see that the ejector rod head has two knurled sections.  Mine, as do most .455 New Services, has three, leaving 5/8 inches of exposed rod.  If yours has had the last section removed, and that's what it looks like from the picture, it would allow the rod to travel 7/8 of an inch, perhaps to eject a longer shell, like a .45 Colt.

I apologize if this was a bit wordy, but I understand that after WWII, this was a more common and easier alteration than to rechamber a .455 to .45 ACP

[Virginia Gentleman]

If your gun is so modified then it is safe to shoot with regular pressure .45 Colt loads or cowboy squibs.  It is a shame that so many have been altered this way as I have a S&W HE in .455 that has been modified to .45 Auto-Rim/ACP.  Makes handloading easy, but the gun has been forever altered from its original chambering.

[St. George]

As to rechambering - after WWII, there were untold numbers of revolvers suddenly on the surplus market.

Countries that still issued them wanted to step into a modern age, and wanted automatics, so they cleaned out their arsenals - much like you see today, with the stuff coming out of the old Soviet countries.

Outfits like 'Ye Olde Hunter', 'Walter Craig', 'Interarmco', and the like, made fortunes supplying the American market with ex-military weapons at prices that are hard to believe, today.

You could even buy DEWAT artillery and machineguns, as well as small arms of every stripe.

In order to effectively sell these weapons - they had to be able to be shot, and some calibers were hard to find - .455 and .38/200 being but a couple of them.

So - enterprising dealers often rechambered their Webleys and Colts and Smith & Wessons to calibers more commonly found in the United States.

So did all sorts of home-grown dealers and basement bandits - with varying results.

Magazine articles were devoted to these 'conversions', and guys who'd never walked past a Bridgeport before were now able to convert them to a more obtainable round.

Quality varies from 'Cogswell and Harrison' and their excellent post-war conversions for the trade - to 'some guy' in the back room of a shop.

Today - thanks to different producers of 'alterable' brass, many of the old obsolete calibers are able to be created, and some are actually available - albeit in small quantities - so converting these pieces is no longer 'the' solution that it once was.

Keeping an original piece in its original chambering will always be the best idea.

As far as rechambered .455's go - those revolvers were over-built when new, and the low pressures of factory .45 Colt make for an enjoyable shooter.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Virginia Gentleman]

Back then they were considered cheap surplus shooters and not possible collectors items.  Too bad, but they are still good shooters with the right ammo with a properly sized lead bullet.

[Joe LeFors]

If your gun is so modified then it is safe to shoot with regular pressure .45 Colt loads or cowboy squibs.  It is a shame that so many have been altered this way as I have a S&W HE in .455 that has been modified to .45 Auto-Rim/ACP.  Makes handloading easy, but the gun has been forever altered from its original chambering.

I've always shot regular off-the-shelf .45 Colt ammunition in it.  Back when I carried it, there was no such thing as "cowboy loads" . . . JLeF

[Virginia Gentleman]

That is because most .45 Colt ammo in the past had .454-456" sized bullets and in your converted .455 the bullets were the right size for the bore.  The problem with accuracy can manifest itself if using .451-452" bullets in either case.