Brass Framed New Model Armys ?

Wolfgang · December 28, 2007, 07:26:04 AM

Were the Remingtons copied by the confederates with brass frames ? . . . I'd heard and believed that they were not and the brass framed '58s were just a Pietta product. The recent post of another information site re Civil War pistols says that they were produced in Brass frame by the confederates. Anyone have "THE ANSWER" on this subject ? . . . . I've just last night been watching "Ride with the Devil" which was one of my Christmas presents. There are both steel and brass framed '58s visible in the gunfights. Nice to see Remingtons in use ! I LOVE 'EM ! See mine in my new holster rig down at the bottom right at : www.drburkholter.com/cf18.html. Good shootin', . . . .

Wolfgang · December 28, 2007, 09:51:30 AM

Barbosa, . . Thanks for the post. I'm aware of the Spiller & Burr pistol with top strap & brass frame. As per my first post, . . I'm not aware of any copy of the actual '58 frame in brass. ( That is old time copy, obviously Pietta does in current time frame .) Good shootin', . . . . REMINGTONS of course !

. . . I LOVE 'em. . .

St. George · December 28, 2007, 10:12:39 AM

Brass-framed Remington copies are the invention of Italian gun makers - there were no Confederate copies.

However - the use of brass was not unknown.

When Captain Richard E. Cuyler was in charge of C.S. Ordnance at Savannah, Georgia, in 1861 and 1862 - he purchased the old Finlay Iron Works - lock, stock and barrel - even including the timekeeper and mechanics.

With that, he set up the C.S. Arsenal, and went looking for contracts.

Griswold and Gunnison responded...

The Confederacy suffered greatly by having limited manufacturing resources - iron being one of them.

An appeal went to Richmond to tap the patriotism of the local churches - asking them to 'loan' their bells to 'the Cause' - the idea being that they could be replaced after the war.

The metal used in church bells is alloyed differently and is stronger than brass alone - making it a substitute for iron.

The churches responded, and the metal was turned into sword/saber hilts, and even cannon barrels, and metal was supplied to Sam Griswold's factory.

The pistols run to type - all being .36 caliber, brass-framed imitations of the Third Model Colt Dragoon.

Take a look at 'Confederate Handguns' - by Albaugh.

It goes into far greater detail and covers the Contracts, production numbers, and much of the inspection processes.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

Lefty County · December 28, 2007, 12:10:25 PM

Not a single reference that I have on Confederate Revolvers (Confederate Revolvers, Confederate Handguns, Confederate Longarms and Pistols, Flaydermans, etc.) lists a brass frame Remington. They are in the same category as the brass frame '51 colts in 44 with the rebated cylinder - an Italian creation.

County

sundance44`s · December 29, 2007, 06:06:45 PM

I read an article the other day that tried to make out the brass frame Remmie as being historically correct ...I wish it were , but it`s not except in an Italian gun makers mind .

Tommy tornado · December 29, 2007, 08:54:37 PM

So Wolfie what kind of load of BP are you shooting out of them BrassBangers? I would imagine that the Remington would be a stronger design than the Griswald Colt copy. I have almost bought one of them Brass Remingtons in the past but I like to shoot Warthog loads. Usually in my .44 Cap and Ball that translates into 30 grains or more of 3fg Goex, and in my .36 Navies 25 grains +. I love stuff those cylinders full, and I wasn't sure that the Brass Remington would hold up to that kind of use.

Wolfgang · December 29, 2007, 09:05:47 PM

I shoot full loads. I tried the 15 gr. plus corn meal. Shot 6 of them pop, pop, poof loads. Pulled the balls and loads from my other cylinders. I wouldn't even bother to shoot them out. When / if they shoot loose then they are spare parts and wall hangers. No "poof/poof" shooting for me. The didn't cost much, and I've already got several steel frame ones as well. I just like the brass as one of them was my first ever Western style pistol. It was lonely so I had to get another and have a pair of 'em. Good shootin', . . .

Steel Horse Bailey · December 30, 2007, 03:08:09 AM

Howdy!

Wolfgang, the Remington design is great and lends itself very well to having an Italian brass frame. And "Ride ..." is a pretty good movie, too!

Cimarron Lawman · January 15, 2008, 06:14:49 PM

Armi San Marco also made a brass '58 Remington. They show up on gunbroker from time to time.

Buffalow Red · January 15, 2008, 11:36:12 PM

i have a 15 year old brass reme by pietta have allwas shot 30 grains but latley i noticed the cly pin doesnt line up aswell ass it used to were it goes in to the rear frame. allso my timer guy got cap shrapnell cuts & it drew blood from my caps blowing back in small pieces & landing in his arm & cheak , this happned on 3 stages that i know of, was shooting 30 grains of 3f goex & 451 lead ball # 10 cci caps so i would advise against that heavy load
ps old dan the timer guy is gun shy around my 12" brass reme now
my steel framed reme didnt seem to do this with the same load

Wolfgang · January 16, 2008, 11:11:03 AM

Buffalow Red, . . thanks for the input. I do shoot 2f not 3f. How many rounds do you figure you put thru that brass frame Remi before you started having trouble with the cylinder pin not mating up at the rear ? Does it hit too high for the hole in the rear of the frame ? . . ie. showing stretching of the top strap ? . . . . curious. . . .

Good shootin', . . . .

Buffalow Red · January 16, 2008, 08:05:51 PM

i would guess around 1000 - 1500 rounds over 15 years
the pin hits a little high & to the left side , i replaced the pin last year due to the cly edge cutting the pin about 25% of the way through
still shoots good havenot been able to understand the caps fragmenting as my steel frame 44 doesnt do that

Tommy tornado · January 17, 2008, 07:21:38 PM

I had a problem with lead shooting out of the side of a R&D conversion cylinder, and it was cutting the timer standing to the side and slightly behind me on the cheek. I was shooting a Pietta Steel Framed Remy about 3 years ago. I have since sold the pistol and cylinder, but I was told to get the problem fixed or be DQed the next time I used the gun. Safety issue, I guess nobody likes getting cut by lead.

Wolfgang · January 22, 2008, 08:33:38 PM

Buffallow, . . thanks for the information. I don't figure to ever shoot the brass ones enough to loosen them up now that I have 2 steel frame ones. ( And I'm sure I'll aquire more ). That's quite a bit of full loads. I've hears that brass frame Colts get very, very loose in 500-600 rounds.

Good shootin', . . . .

Hoof Hearted · January 22, 2008, 11:30:19 PM

Quote from: Tommy tornado on January 17, 2008, 07:21:38 PM
I had a problem with lead shooting out of the side of a R&D conversion cylinder, and it was cutting the timer standing to the side and slightly behind me on the cheek. I was shooting a Pietta Steel Framed Remy about 3 years ago. I have since sold the pistol and cylinder, but I was told to get the problem fixed or be DQed the next time I used the gun. Safety issue, I guess nobody likes getting cut by lead.

Tommy

How the heck are you

Definate timing issue there! Not only a lead spitting safety issue but an invitation to impending firearm failure also. Imagine the forse apllied to the forcing cone every time the bullet slams into the side of it! If you ever run into a problem like that again give me a shout, I owe you a favor or two

SFT · January 27, 2008, 08:29:30 PM

Quote from: Buffalow Red on January 15, 2008, 11:36:12 PM
i have a 15 year old brass reme by pietta have allwas shot 30 grains but latley i noticed the cly pin doesnt line up aswell ass it used to were it goes in to the rear frame. allso my timer guy got cap shrapnell cuts & it drew blood from my caps blowing back in small pieces & landing in his arm & cheak , this happned on 3 stages that i know of, was shooting 30 grains of 3f goex & 451 lead ball # 10 cci caps so i would advise against that heavy load
ps old dan the timer guy is gun shy around my 12" brass reme now
my steel framed reme didnt seem to do this with the same load

30 grains is near the max and I've found that 22-23 grains is the most accurate charge for my Remmies, and this doesn't blow the caps off either.

Tommy tornado · January 27, 2008, 09:18:18 PM

Quote from: Hoof Hearted on January 22, 2008, 11:30:19 PM
Tommy

How the heck are you

Definate timing issue there! Not only a lead spitting safety issue but an invitation to impending firearm failure also. Imagine the forse apllied to the forcing cone every time the bullet slams into the side of it! If you ever run into a problem like that again give me a shout, I owe you a favor or two

Doing well! I enjoyed your post on the conversion you did up. At the moment all guns are working well, and I am trying to decide between buying a Navy .36 Remington or a .45 LC 1872 open top. The Remington would obviously be the cheaper of the two. Also, I am not to sure how well an open top in .45 LC would hold up.

Hoof Hearted · January 27, 2008, 09:57:41 PM

Tommy

So as not to hijack this thread...........
shoot me an email I have some input for you

buckoff@alltel.net