CAS Range Safety

Whiskey Johnson · January 24, 2008, 08:19:42 PM

I was talking with fellow shooters after a match at my local range last night(indoor smallbore 4 position rifle) and telling them all of my excitement about CAS. All that had seen it before were concerned about safety. They thought the targets were too close and had concerns about how safe it is. In general, I want to know how to defend us! I know CAS has been around awhile, but give me some ammo, pard!

I am not trying to "inflame" anyone, You all seem "friendlier" than most boards, hope I am right.

My Background: New SASS member, been checking this out on the web for awhile, attended only 1 match (spectator last month), and hope to actually shoot next month. I decided I want to shoot "classic cowboy" so it may be awhile to "fund" a '73 though! My .45 Vaquero's are good, but the .44 puma rifle wont cut it!

Four Eyed Floyd · January 24, 2008, 08:57:34 PM

While I don't claim to be an expert on the subject but I have been to a few shoots and the clubs take great care to make sure everything is safe. The angle of the targets allows the bullets to hit the ground rather than bounce back to the shooters or spectators.

Range Officers keep a watchful eye on each shooter as do the other pards.

So you see the uninformed should go to a safety meeting a learn a few things.

Now about that Puma...whats the problem

I have one in 357 and it works just fine.

Arcey · January 24, 2008, 09:10:43 PM

SASS shooting is as safe as it gets with loaded guns. Remind them hundreds of people shoot these events every weekend across the country 'n round the world. Invite your friends to come and watch. Don't forget to tell them to bring eye and ear protection.

Floyd, I'm thinkin' his Puma is a clone of a '92. From the handbook for Classic Cowboy:

Rifles: Any 1873 or earlier manufacture SASS–legal rifle or a replica thereof (e.g., 1866
Winchester, 1860 Henry, 1873 Winchester).

Arcey – SASS 13901

Whiskey Johnson · January 24, 2008, 09:22:40 PM

Sorry, guess I should have clarified a little. Thier concerns (range officers) were about bullet bounce, or spashback. Our shortest range is 25M, fully bermed in. The one CAS event I went to was about 1/3 that distance for pistol.

Thanks, pards!

Four Eyed Floyd · January 24, 2008, 09:26:05 PM

Gotcha Arcey,
I am mostly covered since I have a 73, 92, and 94. Maybe next year a 60 and a 66. Just love this Cowboy action. the 73 is for BP. got hooked on BP and have been leaning that way ever since.

Whiskey Johnson · January 24, 2008, 09:31:06 PM

Thanks for the info Pards!

Wymore Wrangler · January 24, 2008, 09:33:29 PM

The close distances of pistol targets, and I guess rifle also, are the reason why no jacketed bullets are allowed, lead bullets when loaded to decent velocities, will flatten against the targets, is there occasion splatter bounce back, yes there is. I won't tell you that they don't hurt, but in all but rare cases they are only stingers.... And yes, SASS matches are very safe...

Arcey · January 24, 2008, 09:38:07 PM

One other angle boys 'n this ain't an LBN brag. Look at the difference in our badge numbers. Probably ten years in time. Lotta folks in between us. Lotta rounds fired. That many wouldn't have become involved if it weren't safe.

Y'all have fun 'n make sure yerownselves conduct yerselves safely 'n we'll all carry this thing on. Whole passel of laughs ta be had. Many real good folks ta meet. Some of the best I've ever been around. Like Wymore there. We've broke bread 'n shot tagether.

Good Luck! 'N Floyd, keep 'em smokin'. I do.

Wymore Wrangler · January 25, 2008, 06:27:02 AM

Yep it was great meeting all those folks in the Tidewater area.... This game is amazing on how many great friends that you have!

Deadeye Don · January 25, 2008, 06:57:45 AM

I think the best "defense" in this case is the history of CAS and the number of "significant" injuries that have occurred over the years. Alot of you have been involved in CAS alot longer than me so I would be interested in hearing any data or even specific occurances of injuries that have happened during matches. My best guess is that there havent been any really serious injuries that have occurred. If in fact this is the case then in my thinking that would be the best information you could give to those who question the CAS shooting safety record.

I wonder if any groups like SASS or NCOWS have kept any data on occurances of shooting mishaps? If not, then maybe we should start. Just a thought. This data pool could then be presented to new shooters or persons outside our sport who question our safety practices. Regards. Deadeye.

Arcey · January 25, 2008, 09:47:38 AM

Mornin', Don.

That would be a good idea. I didn't suggest it yesterday because I know of no reliable source of information for those stats. Perhaps one of the organizations keeps them. A phone call to either from an interested party should answer the question. Then again someone on the board may know and will post it.

I've only heard of one shooting during a match and that was a few years ago. Someone supposedly got confused on a stage, drew and cocked a revolver then tried to holster the thing – still cocked. Before the RO could stop him he'd shot himself just above the knee. As the story went it wasn't serious and he wasn't hospitalized. True or untrue I don't know. I don't even remember where I heard it.

To my knowledge, no one has suffered a significant injury from 'bounce' or 'splash' back.

My pet worry is an eye injury. At my club we're very strict. We'll run off spectators without eye protection even if they're in the parking lot. If they're close enough to see what's going on eye protection is a must. It isn't negotiable.

I've seen smashed fingers and toes from folks handling/dropping targets. I seem to have developed a habit of knocking the skin off a knuckle or two during set up when I have brain fade and leave the work gloves off.

Camille Eonich · January 25, 2008, 10:28:00 AM

Like Arcey I heard of someone shooting themself a long time ago while holstering a gun with the hammer back. I believe that he was a gunfighter. Anyway I'm told that's where the rule for gunfighters comes from that they can't shoot for example, 3 out of one and two out of another and then holster, move and continue with pistols later.

A couple of years ago there was a kid at the loading table that was lightly thumbing the hammers on his loaded guns while waiting to be called to the line. He shot himself in the foot or leg or something. Don't play with loaded guns.

SASS has a maximum velocity rule for rifle and pistols as well as a maximum shot size for shotgun loads. Targets are hung in such a manner that deflect splatter down rather than back. Most splash back comes from shotgun targets and I'm convinced that what splash back is lead that accumulates on the face of the targets rather than actual shot.

All bullets used must be lead and cannot be jacketed. With the ammo that most of us use and with the target placement you may get an occasional large fragment that comes back at you if the bullet hits funny or hits a bolt head but by the time that ut does get back it has lost the power to do anything other than maybe a scratch and sometimes a bruise. Yeah, I have been bruised by splash back before. I stopped shooting at that club until they corrected the hanging of ther targets. They were mounted rigid and without tilt down.

SASS has very strict safety rules.

Arcey · January 25, 2008, 11:19:31 AM

Not to mention organized training classes for folks aspiring to run the clock and ride herd over the shooters. Missouri Marshal had to drag me kickin' 'n screamin' to the ROII course. I thought I shouldah be brevetted. All joking aside, that's a good thing. All of the folks running the clock at my club are SASS ROII certified. Everything that can be done, to date, has been done to ensure safety. If another problem is identified we'll work on it.

New shooters are required to attend a shoot as a spectator. They won't be allowed to shoot until they do. When they show up for their first, they're assigned a mentor. The mentor follows them to the loading table, to the line, to the unloading table. The mentor's job is to observe and instruct the new shooter. I had one when I was new – that was a long time ago.

When my club relocated to the range we're on now, we found different circumstances than we had. Shooting versus target positions that weren't level. It seemed the shotgun bounce back was excessive. We used standard knock downs placed on the ground. Us 'bored members' decided to get them off the ground and built stands to do just that. That helped a lot.

I thought about it and came up with the theory the pellets may be ricocheting off the shotgun targets, into the pistol targets then into the crowd. The next shoot I wrote, I placed the shotgun targets at the same distance as the pistol targets. That problem has been cut to a minimum.

We've spent a great deal of money on state-of-the-art static target stands. If there's a question as to the condition of a target, we'll toss it. And, we're nothing special. Just a run-of-the-mill SASS club. If folks get hurt at our shoots they'll quit coming. If they quit coming, we don't have a shoot. It's that simple.

Whiskey Johnson · January 25, 2008, 05:43:48 PM

Thanks for all the great info. I have no concerns about the issue, but if the membership at MY range has concerns, I am sure others do too. That is my reasoning for bringing it up.

Heck, I wish I had the lead you all have fired in CAS! I'd sell it back to you all and buy my own range!

Maybe SASS, or NCOWS have some "stats" about how many matches without injury or something. If not, it would be a good idea like Deadeye Don mentioned.