French Spencer carbine identification .

[Fredlambert]

Hello , I'm French and I recently Get in France a Spencer carbine , Burnside made , model 1865 , 56/52 - 56/50 caliber , serial number 31521 with American inspector marrking on the wood .I would like to know if the serial number can help to identify the service in United States .May this carbine be sent to France for the 1870 Franco - prussian war ?
There is two little letters on the top of the wood of the butstock : S.C or S.O , does it mean something ?
Thank you very much for your help.

Fred


                                                Photo resized by T.F.

                                                Photo resized by T.F.

[Two Flints]

Hi Fred, (and what a great first name you have

According to my records, Spencer Carbine serial #s 31,519 and 31,522 were both assigned to Co. G, 6th Indiana Volunteer Cavalry on July 13, 1864.  Since your Spencer Carbine serial # 31,521 falls in between these two serial numbers, I assume that your Spencer Carbine was assigned to the same unit, Co. G, 6th Indiana Volunteer Cavalry.

I was wrong on the above information.  See the last two posts for clarification.

Two Flints

[Fredlambert]

Hello , thank you very much for your quick message but I'm surprise , I don't understand how a model 1865 ( stamped on the frame ) can be find in a cavalry regiment in 1864 ... I was thinking that the Burnside contract was made after the civil war . Do you know if the Burnside 's Spencer started from number 1 to end of production or the serial number follow the original civil war production ?
Thank you very much for you research . If you are interrested I can write a little topic about the Spencer we receive in France in 1870 but my English is not very good !
Fred .

[Bead Swinger]

Bonjour!
Two Flints - are you sure these are M1865's? I think the information about the 6th Indiana is wrong - those 31,000-series carbines most likely would have been Spencer-made Model 1860 Spencer Carbines, not the Burnsides version. I'd like to be wrong. I wasn't aware that any of the Burnsides MFG made it into US service.

My guess is it was never issued, until the French Army got it.  'She looks like a beautiful piece.  Does she have a Stabler Cutoff? (little switch underneath, and right in front of the trigger?)

If the bore & chamber are good, she could be converted to Center Fire and fired again!

[Two Flints]

   

Fredlambert, JoeB, and Bead Swinger,

My mistake completely .  In my haste to post I overlooked the 1860 Carbine notation for that serial # search. 

Indeed, the M-1865 Spencer belonging to Fredlambert was made too late to be issued for use during the Civil War and was probably sold at a later time to the French for possible use in the Franco-Prussian War.

Thanks for correcting me I'm gonna go off into the nearest hole and hide for a while

Two Flints

[Fredlambert]

Hello , thank you for your messages , my spencer got the Stabbler cut off and the condition is good but without it's original casehardened . It's difficult to find a Spencer in very good original condition in France .An inventory of Bayonne ( south west France ) arsenal on November 1871 indicate that all the Spencer are completely rusted , in very bad condition .They where sold few years later to auction .
I understand that the Burnside made got it's serial range from 1 to about 31000 so two Spencer can have the same number .
I was thinking that the spencer we receive in France may have had service on the Border from 1865 to 1870 and may be use for Indian war .Nobody knows what mean the stamp on the wood with the little letters ( see photo above )?
I send you a pictur of the American inspectors marking on the wood , someone can read it for me ?
Thank you very much,


                                                        Photo resized by T.F.

Fred .

[Two Flints]

Hello Fredlambert,

This is a partial page (p.92) from the Marcot book, Spencer Repeating Firearms.
The cartouche from your photo of your Spencer looks similar to the cartouche shown in the middle photograph and what the cartouche means is explained in the text below - the Middle -



A closer look at the cartouche of the Spencer stock in the middle photo.  Looks similar.


It would be nice to see more complete photos of your Spencer - perhaps in more detail!

Two Flints

[Fredlambert]

Hello , thank you for the pictures and for the informations .I send pictures of my Spencer in a new topic called " Spencer in the Franco-Prussian war " .
Fred .

[geo]

nothing wrong with your english, especially compared to my french (none), or german, for that matter (german father, three years of school german - very rusty). thanks for your post. good luck, geo.

[Henry4440]

Ok, it's not about an French Spencer.
I read the following in an article:
.........I once owned a Spencer (sort of) that I sold in a fit of stupidity back in the eighties. When I say sort of, it was because it wasn't a real Spencer. It was a "period reproduction" if you will, maunfactured in Leige, Belgium in 1873 by a company named Falisse and Trappman. I never did figure out what calibre it was. The odd thing is, it had a centrefire breechblock.....

Did anybody knows more about that company?

[Two Flints]

Found this after doing an Internet search on a past Julia Auction from October, 2007:

SCARCE BELGIAN MADE SPENCER CARBINE. SN 1760. Cal. 50 RF. Made in 1873 under license from Spencer by Falisse & Trappman in Liege, probably less than 1,000 produced according to the book Spencer Repeating Firearms, Marcot on pp. 157-58. Externally has all the appearance of a standard Spencer carbine with 20" rnd bbl, square base front sight and standard Spencer rear sight. Top of receiver is marked "UNION ARMORIERE BELGE / -LIEGE-". It has various Belgian proof marks on bbl, receiver & wood with a large cartouche on right side of buttstock dated "1873". It has a sling bar & ring on left side of wrist and a sling loop on bottom of stock. PROVENANCE: Glenn Marsh Collection. CONDITION: Very good.  Bbl retains about 80% dark orig blue with balance a mottled blue/brown patina.  Receiver is mostly a brown patina with some silvered case colors.  Wood is sound with numerous dents, dings & scratches and retains a dark oil finish on forearm and 75-80% orig varnish on buttstock.  Mechanics are fine, brilliant shiny bore.