Sourdough starter... makes awefully bitter bread

[Dakota Widowmaker]

Is there a way to "tame" the taste of some sourdough bread I baked? I am looking for recipe suggestions for my breadmaker machine.

I use 2.5 cups of unbleached flour
1.25 cups of water (luke warm)
3/4 cup of starter
3/4 tsp of breakmaker yeast
1 tablespoon of suger (white/bleeched)
1 tsp of salt
1 tablespoon of veg oil

Would adding more sugar or using bleeched flour help with the very bitter taste?

I made my starter using 2 cups unbleached flour with 2 cups of warm water I got from boiling some potatos.

Oh MAN!!! did that loaf rise in the machine.. clear to the top of the bucket in my Oyster breadmaker.

I added more stuff back to the starter already.

Maybe I should use less starter???

My next experiment is with biscuits this weekend.

[Delmonico]

Try a little salertus (baking soda)

[Curley Cole]

Del's right, sugar don't do any sweetin'. It is the bakin soda, of which I saw none in yer recipe.  In my hotcakes I use a teaspoon, so maybe guage it from there, I don't remember how much in my bread. I will look and try to get back to ya. Ifn ya use too much it will make it tough..

curley (who wanted to alais Sourdough-T, when he joined up)

[Delmonico]

I will say though, my starter is never bitter, I make it out of Champagne yeast, flour and water, you don't say what yeast you used, if you captured a wild yeast by leaving it open that may be the problem.  Although the Salertus will help, I never use it in my yeast beads,, in fact I never all any yeast, but let the yeast in the sourdough do that, don't think that would work with a bread machine though, because it does often take more time.

When I make a recipe for a quick bread with sourdough, I do use the salertus, but not any baking powder, it is not needed if you have a good starter becase the acetic acid and the lactic acid in the starter react with it to do the chemical reaction that forms the CO2 to make it rise.

[Singing Bear]

Not directly related to sourdough bread, but I use my machine only for the initial kneading/mixing, first rise and the second kneading.  I let the second rising take place in my new bread pan.  I been getting way better results with my breads and have more recipe flexibility.  The machine is fine for "plain" breads, but for specialty breads I'll use the oven for baking.  I been baking my own whole grain breads that the family has been really enjoying.  Won't be making any sourdough, though, as the family don't seem to like it much. 

[Athena Jake]

Use it more often. (not that I know how often it is getting used now)
If you let the starter sit for a long time (especially until the "hooch" starts to build up) it will be much sourer.

I do not know that adding the starter and yeast together is not adding to the over all bitterness, two different cultures battling it out in there!
The bakers yeast might be eating away all the nutrients before the slower starter can get at it, and the Higher acids in the starter might be interfering with the baker's yeast.

Your recipe sounds like "San Francisco-Style Sourdough French Bread - Version II"
http://whatscookingamerica.net/Bread/FrenchSourDoughII.htm

1 1/2 cups sourdough starter, room temperature
1/2 cup plus 3 tablespoons lukewarm water (110 degrees F.)
2 teaspoons salt
2 tablespoons olive oil
1 tablespoon sugar
3 cups bread flour or unbleached all-purpose flour
Cornmeal (for dusting the stone)

But she does not add in any regular yeast, and some what less liquid.

But using your starter weekly (or more!) will keep it so tame that they will never know it is in there.
I have used King Arthur's Recipe for Hearth bread and use 1 cup of starter (instead of baker's yeast) and people never believe it is sourdough bread.  It just takes a little more time to get risen.  All this of course is when it works right!  Other wise I feed the squirrels with the breads that don't!  (my wife thinks I am fattening the squirrels up for Christmas dinner)

Athena Jake
"It is bread, it will forgive you"
--Fr. Dominic Garamond

[Delmonico]

I never thought about culture clash between the yeasts.  Even if you stat a starter with bread yeast it will mutate different to fit it's enviroment.  I use French Champagne yeast for my starters since the local wild yeast does not work like some areas of the country.  It also I guess could be from the local strain of wild yeast if that is the way Singing Bear went.

The hour I spent one time with a micro bioligist from Fleishmann's was time well spent.  Yes I used the 1-800 number, the jars said if you have any questions about our product to call that number.

[Athena Jake]

Now that I said that about the two might not mix, I managed to get home and look through my copy of "The Complete Sourdough Cookbook" by Don and Myrtle Holm.  The first two French bread recipes use baker's yeast in with the starter.

Sourdough French Bread -- II

To stay on track with the original recipe, again along the same lines:
1 packet of yeast (2 1/4 tsp.) dissolved into 1/4 cup of warm water.
Combine this with 4 1/2 Cups unsifted flour.
2 Tbs sugar, 2tsp. salt, 1Cup water, 1/2Cup milk, 2 Tbs vegetable oil and 1/4 cup of sourdough starter

Mix and knead lightly and place in greased bowl to rise until doubled.  Turn out onto floured board and divide dough into two parts.  Shape dough parts into oblongs and then roll up tightly, beginning with one side.  Seal outside edge by pinching and shape into size wanted.  Place loaves on greased baking sheet and let rise until doubled again.  Bake at 400 degrees F. for about 25 minutes, after first slashing diagonal cuts on top, and brushing with water.

Athena Jake

[Marshal'ette Halloway]

I learned everything I know about sourdough bread making form Del... and I also use my machine for just the kneading and raising part..
I love it when it has a real strong bite to it..( does that make me weird? )
A... never mind.. anyone who has met me isn't allowed to answer that..