Question about wearing medals [repros] of valor

[Pitspitr]

Perhaps it is now my turn to make sure that my intentions were understood.

If I have my memory correct I have seen the wearing of medals on the full dress uniform and the "undress" uniform such as Pitspitr is wearing in his avatar.

My avitar and the photo below are of me in my GAF uniform. While it is a fair represntation of an early 1870's infantry colonel's uniform, the look I was really trying to achieve was that of a "society" officer such as a ranking member of the GAR. It is the uniform I wear when I represent or promote the GAR.
When (Bvt.) General (Ret) Missouri Scotsman was commander of the GAF I encouraged him to wear his rank. I thought (and still think) that wearing the symbol of your GAF brevet is a good way to promote the GAF. When (Bvt.) General U.S. Scout promoted me to (Bvt.) Colonel, I felt the time had come to put up or shut up, and had a uniform made.
These photos were taken at the Cornhusker State Games last year. The picture below shows me all decked out for a photo op. I am wearing the medal I won for winning my class that day, along with my GAF membership medal and my SUVCW membership medal the bar above is the GAF marksmanship bar. The hat wreath is a GAF hat wreath and the tabs on my collar are the GAF collar devices. You can't see the GAF belt plate that I also wore that day. The decorations I am wearing are my own, not fantasy. They are worn on a "scoiety" uniform and they give me the oppertunity to promote the GAF. It is currently the only GAF uniform I own but I am in the process of having a dress uniform made and once I do the medals will be put on it and stay there.



BTW Thank you Gen. Scout for posts # 35 & 36

[US Scout]

Thank you U. S. Scout and Sgt. Drydock.

Thanks also for the admonition about conduct on this forum. I did not cross any lines and neither has Colonel Flashman. We have indulged in a spirited debate and I am happy with my "persona" displayed here and explained it in greater detail because there are those who think they "know it all" but my impression is that they do not. You have nothing to worry as to my conduct now or in the future.

RR.

Roy,

It was just a reminder, not an admonition.  No one had crossed the line - yet.  I meant to keep it that way.

I applaud your enthusiasm in putting together a uniform, or two, that appeals to your interests.  There were a number of officers who served in various Armies overseas, but before and after the Civil War, so you may want to do a little research to see what decorations they wore, and how they wore them.

I would like to reemphasize that the GAF encourages its members to wear a uniform of their choosing as long as it fits within our time period. The nationality, rank, and corps (branch), and the "year" is totally up to the member.  Whether they make a uniform equivilent to their more modern service, what they like to imagine they might have been, what they've done in reenacting/living history, to honor an ancestor, or just because they like how a particular uniform looks is unimportant - just that they wear it with respect.

We deliberately impose very few restrictions on what can be worn since we have a very diverse membership, and we are not trying to recreate the American frontier army (though as our name implies we originally thought that was the direction the GAF would go).   We've got those who wear Confederate gray, Federal blue, or Royal red (and a rainbow of other colors) to to honor their heritage, just as we have others who have created a 19th century equivilent to demonstrate their pride and accomplishments in the 20th and 21st century military.  They are all approved uniforms for the GAF. 

Wear what uniform you will - but do it with respect and to honor the men who wore it before you.

US Scout
GAF, Commanding

[US Scout]

My avitar and the photo below are of me in my GAF uniform. While it is a fair represntation of an early 1870's infantry colonel's uniform, the look I was really trying to achieve was that of a "society" officer such as a ranking member of the GAR. It is the uniform I wear when I represent or promote the GAR.

I must admit that I really like this idea and plan to get around to doing much the same at some point in the future. 

Bvt Col Pitspitr brings up a good point.  GAF officers (to include our NCO corps) are highly encouraged to wear a uniform with their GAF rank on it.  Not required of course, but we do like to see our leadership properly turned out when on parade! 

US Scout
GAF, Commanding

[Rancid Roy]

Thank you again U. S. Scout for your reply.

I think by the posts I have provided it is clear that I will never be seen wearing medals of any kind in any inappropriate fashion. If it does occur it would due to ignorance on my part and if corrected I would remove them.

My original question was posed just specifically for that reason. I know that in other venues and in real life the wearing of medals not earned or not possible for the time period is either incorrect, immoral, or illegal.

But the GAF has appeared to me to, due to the posts I have seen since its inception, not a necessarily a venue as strict as the re-enacting or living history programs. Although that does appear to be changing. Its mixture of SASS/CAS/NCOWS/GAF has led me to believe there might be different parameters from the other genres.

I did not want to cross any of those parameters and I did not wish to offend anyone. There is a large bunch of us who have had prior military service and some who still serve. We are all very respectfull of anything military regardless of its "age".

I received the information I needed and some I felt was frankly useless. But I expected all of it.

I am more knowldegable than some here have assumed and more experienced in the details we have discussed. But the one small detail I needed information on I received information on.

Again, if I appear in a true living history program or a strict re-enacting program, a lot of the "fantasy"/Hollywood uniform would be jettisoned. If I appear at a SASS/CAS event [probably about all I will do] then the fantasy becomes the reality. However even then I intend to follow the lines of authenticity as to wearing of rank and medals.

And once again be assured I would never wear anything that could be considered as attempting to pass myself off as a fraud.

Regards, Rancid Roy.

[Drydock]

I would like to make one more point.   The GAF encourages 2 distinct styles of Military Depiction.  "Authentic" and "Hollywood".  Both are encouraged, neither is considered superior. We have awards for both.  If you were to attend a muster, you would probably see more Hollywood than authentic, just as you would likely see more folks shooting "Cowboy" style guns as opposed to our "Battle Rifle" classes. 

If there is a problem here, it is that it seems you have a foot in both camps.  Nothing wrong with this, I have Hollywood outfits as well as those that comply with pertinant regulations.  But in mixing the two you can have confusion in a forum such as this, and confusion creates friction. 

Be careful, be specific, and you will find a wealth of information here.  I have yet to find a "Snoot" around these fires.  I have found a lot of good natured debate, and good whisky as well.

[Rancid Roy]

Thank you Sgt. Drydock and I will look forward to the whiskey some day. In a very small dose of Jamesons.

Either I failed to make my position clear or perhaps folks missed my point entirely.

I intend to eventually be attending SASS/CAS events as a U. S. Cavalry Major and as a U. S. Cavalry First Sergeant. My attire, since I will be shooting will be field attire. As much as possible I desire to be historically correct. But with the warm year around temps in Albuquerque and New Mexico I needed an outfit that would "protray" the rank of a Major but not be HOT.....hence the the vest with shoulder boards. With as much research as my time and budget allows I came to the conclusion that Hollywood never did this with a vest and it may or may not have occurred in real history. But my research indicates it is a very slight possibility. The rest of my attire in the picture is definitely recorded in print enough to have been done.

My question as to the medals came about because some day, after a shoot there will be a evening "soiree" and I may wish to appear in "Undress" which I think allows the wearing of medals. I wanted to be period correct in what I wore but not offensive to anyone. The problem for American awards is what has been reported here by GAF members and by my research....the only decorations available for any type of service were "Valor decorations". So since the time period we all "re-enact/shoot" in has long past would it still be offensive to wear medals of valor? I did not feel comfrotable with it so I posed the question here and my feelings were confirmed.

In the future, if I purchase bonafide, historically and regulation correct attire and attend a serious GAF Function I would be wearing only my GAF medal which I will purchase this week.

Thanks again, R. R.

[ColonelFlashman]

Thanks for the word on the Iron Cross Peachey and I agree if I were to portray a true life persona then I'd skip the Iron Cross and may or not not wear it anyhow. I was trying via the internet to research it and got little info. But my Major persona is a fantasy, and in fantasy anything is possible.

Flashman you may have been standing around the SASS shoots longer than me but I don't think you were paying much attention. SASS started as a fantasy and still is a fantasy, it will always be a fantasy. Only a very, very few who particpate are historically/correctly attired and armed. That is the beauty of this sport, anybody can play and be anything they want with in a framework of loosely coded rules.

I was around when the GAF got started on the SASSWire and it has since grown into an offshoot organization that spans the boundaries of both SASS and NCOWS, which is good. When GAF puts on a more formal/historically correct event than yes all particpants should be in proper uniform. When GAF goes to shoot at a SASS event the fantasy lives.....

My little Major persona is a mix of Hollywood and very possible reality, as I said every part of that picture could easily have been the uniform of an officer on campaign, so I am not too far away from the actualities of what was worn.

It is indeeed an open forum and all are invited to attend, which is why I came here. I did my research first, as much as my time allows, and then I came here because I know there are those here who are knowledgeable.

But you were just rude, and condescending not helpful. If it was part of your fantasy "persona" you should let folks now that up front, otherwise you are goin got be seen as.....rude and condescending.

I was the president of a SASS/CAS club for almost three years, I read the SASS handbook a lot. I have talked with Tex and U. S. Grant lot about SASS.

I'm not confused nor libelous....just truthful.

You are making a common mistake many re-enactors and living history aficianados make. Pictures. They only tell a very small part of the history when photography was in its infancy. As such most people who sat for them, or stood up their entire military formation for them, put on their "best" and or wore the trinkets the photographer added [in the case of many civilian photos]. So a large majority of the "photos" of the early and mid 19th century are posed, extra "ornamamented", or not a statement of the facts as to real dress.

Hollywood has added to the misconceptions. When they make a cavalry movie it looks better to have the men all "uniformed" up and not actually wearing what they would have been wearing on campaign, which was often enough, in often enough cases, a mix of military and civilian.

Once again I wish I looked like Burt Lancaster or some such actor....then you'd be correct, I'd be Silver Screen!!

Thanks Dr. Bob, I have been on the GAF a long time and have been cruising this board a long time, just not participating as I had not "moved into" a military persona yet. There are knowledge folks here, there are beginners, and there are pretenders. Their comments speak for their knowledge.

I have all four copies of Steffen's cavalry books and at one point all cavalry men wore a "C" on their buttons, and Dragoons wore a "D". I could not find in the books where the practice was left to only the officer ranks. I came here and made a post to find the answer and got it, and I found it as well deeper into Steffens books. But one person [being very helpful] stated that it was never done [all personnel wearing buttons with a "C"] but it was at one time.

And no, Steffen's books are not the "be all", but I did my research and they are a very good start.

My vest with the rank is a cross between Hollywood and actuality, it could have been done in real times and I did it to ensure the "Major persona" was understandable to the many who I shoot with and do not know the acual uniform situations of the 19th Century. I did not want to go full Hollywood and wear the shirt with rank, I wanted to fall somewhere in between.

I hope the GAF continues to grow and I hope it continues to enjoy both aspects of this military fantasy, actual historical portrayals and....fantasy. I will never go full bore "authenticity" because I don't care to spend the money and I ain't gonna wear wool in the summer!!

If others wish to be authentic down to not bathing regularly I support them....upwind but I think the authenticity is great, a lot of lost info has been unearthed because of the zeal. Just don't be rude about it, is my credo.

Thanks again for all the helpful input gentlemen. Regards, Rancid Roy.

Rancid Roy

You have to have been Looking @ your Reflection when making those accusations, because they Do Not reflect the several thousands of hours spent by me, wearing white cotton gloves in Research Libraries & Museums going over original source material & the candid pictures that I prefer to study from the era.
W/ that stated, I would not have been asked to Join the illustrious organization of G.A.F., by U.S. Scout no less, not very long after it's inception, been appointed to a Staff position to help w/ the organization & it's Members who wished to get it right, if my knowledge of the Military of the Era were not Accurate & Correct.
Stephen's books are good & full of usefull Information & as I've stated previously, I've All of his books, which are all First Additions, his four large volumes & the one small volume. But, they are Not the be all, to end all, as they do not contain everything necessary to get it right, as you have found out or you'd not be here asking for help.

Plus from your responses here, you've locked onto the "Fantasy" aspect & nothing else. When in Fact if You'd just READ & Comprehend the S.A.S.S. Hand Book, it Clearly States under Clothing & Accoutrements, that this sport is "PART Saturday Morning @ the Matinee & PART Historical Re-enactment". Which Tex & others of the Wild Bunch have exhaustingly fostered & I reiterate the Historical & Fantasy together, Not just the Fantasy aspect, but you would have us believe otherwise from what you've written here. Which means your statements & accusations hurled @ me are Incorrect, Inaccurate & False.

Every one of your mind set has always fallen back on that supercilious & officious stand & touting the over used Axiom of, "Authentic means Dirty & Unwashed", Nonsense. Nor any other such related thing that your ilk has come up w/ & it has never & will never mean any such stupidity. Even the worst Grade Z Cavalry flick had the Cast wearing wool of some type or quality, which actually Breathes better than Cotton & Cavalry Boots of some sort. Rank boards were Only worn on Uniform Blouses & White Cotton Duck Trousers for Mounted & Infantry were Issued to those in Hot Climates

Once again, just because 1/10 of a percent of the Troopers wore a mesh mash of clothing you've stated in the field, Does Not Make it the Norm. It IS the Exception & Not the Rule. And for the record, Everyone that enlisted Was issued ALL the Uniforms listed in the G.O.'s & Reg's & every six years after that. Officers were Required to supply there own from Full Dress down to Field Uniforms & to Take them w/ them to Every post they are stationed @.

Yes, my original post was in Jest, but you decided that you'd put your slant on it as to how you would've responded, accused me of such & became extremely nasty, snotty, insulting & obnoxious about it. Once again, Go Back & Re-Read what those stated to you about me in this thread, as you either failed to do so in the first place or failed to comprehend what was written. And yes, if you cross the line, which you have, what you state here is actionable, if an individual chooses to pursue it.

Do Not bother to respond to this post or any Future posts I may make here or anywhere else, as they will not be looked upon w/ any kindness what so ever & will be ignored. Do not ever attempt Any kind of communication or approach me @ an event if by some small chance we are attending the same function. You've proven to me, as well as others here, that unless those that post here are of the same Mind Set as yours, they'll only be met Ranker, an Omnipotent, Holier than thou & Know it all attitude.

Good day to you.

[Rancid Roy]

To Colonel Flashman,

Your quote:

"You've proven to me, as well as others here, that unless those that post here are of the same Mind Set as yours, they'll only be met Ranker, an Omnipotent, Holier than thou & Know it all attitude."

So far the only person who has responded to my question in this manner is you and it appears you fit the mold to a "T". You may very well be as educated and as knowledgeable as you speak, but you are, to me, a supercilious bore evidentally with your knowledge.

A shame because if you are so knowledgeable you could be of great assistance to those who know less, such as me.

This I do know, until someone can prove otherwise, every part of what I wore in that fantasy picture was possible to have been worn in the time period of 1865 to 1868. Even if 1/10 of the evidence exists as you state to satisy my "claim", that is enough. It obviously happened since it was reported or photographed.

Please do not worry, in the future you do not interest me.

Regards, Rancid Roy.

[Major Matt Lewis]

OK,

Looks like it's time to put on my Moderator hat and do some moderating.  We are starting to step over the line of "Friendly Debate."  So I am going to close down the thread so everybody can back away and cool off.  I am not deleting it outright because there is some good information.  Play nice.