Lead Hardness Testers

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy!

I'm posting here 'cause the hardness of lead and alloys is near and dear to our Darksider hearts.

I've seen the Lee tester advertised and my good pard, Silver Creek Slim says his is good.  I wonder about the "6 step process" that is mentioned - it seems like a lot of room for error.  I know that this stuff aint rocket surgery or brain science, but what's involved?  I've also seen the ads for th SAECO tester that uses its own system but has a conversion to Brinnell figures.  I'm sure there's others - (unfortunately, Harbor Freight DOESN"T seem to carry THAT/THEM  ) so what else is available that doesn't take an engineering degree to operate ... or a FAT wallet to buy?

Thanks, y'all.


OH yeah, has anyone actually tried that "pencil hardness method" and does it work good enough to come up with some Boolits nearly pure or in the 30-1 to 20-1 range?


Ride Easy!

[hellgate]

I stole this from the old CAS-L years ago:
LEAD HARDNESS TESTING USING ART PENCILS
The following is a short version of a method commonly used to test the
hardness of paint films, and your library can give you a full description if
you ask them for "The American Standard Test Method (ASTM) for Pencil
Hardness."
        In brief, you can go to an art supply store and get a set of pencils
whose core varies in hardness from "9B" to "9H".  The actual range runs from[softest] 9B,>>>1B, HB, F, 1H, >>>9H [hardest].  The harder pencils can be used to test some aluminum alloys, and are much too hard for lead alloys. Leadwill run about 4B or 5B, depending on purity, and linotype will run about HB or F.  So a dozen pencils will cover the entire range.
        To use, you shave the wood away with a penknife to expose the lead
core of the pencil, but without cutting into it with the knife.  I cut close
and peel the thin wood away with my fingernail, leaving about 1/8 to 1/4"
exposed. 

[Steel Horse Bailey]

And how, exactly does this work?  If the pencil "lead" gouges the real lead, ... ?

[Howdy Doody]

Years ago there was mention of using a ball bearing and doing comparisons of ingots by turning a
C clamp a full turn onto the ball bearing lying on top of the ingot and comparing theindentation of
the bearing. I forgot all the details, but you would need to have a known hardness source and then
keep the sample.
Too hard for a wheelweight man. I simply melt wheelweights with clips and flux them and pour into
muffins and mark them. I do the same for stick on wheel weights, which are near pure lead.
When it gets time for a casting session, I like to mix my muffins equal parts and it works out to boolits
I really like in front of BP. It is the old KISS system and what works for me, might not for everyone. 

[Hell-Er High Water]

Steel Horse,

The cheapest, and maybe the easiest, is a comparative test with a known sample.  With equal size ingots (typically the ones from the Lyman/RCBS/Saeco ingot moulds) and using a steel ball bearing of around 1/2" - 5/8" diameter you put them both in a bench vise with the ball bearing between them.  Close the vise until the ball bearing indents both ingots with an impression of about 1/4" - 3/8" diameter.

Then by measuring the diameters of the two indentations you can get a relative hardness of the unknown alloy to the know one.  Typically for the known alloy I use ingots of pure lead, 20:1, wheelweights or Lyman No. 2.  By knowing how the indentation sizes of these four compare with each other you can get a pretty good feel for what you are testing.

The ingot surfaces should be as smooth as possible and not rough and ragged like some come out of the moulds.

Then there is always the LBT tester.  Quite pricey (in the $90.00 range) but simple to use.  Info on it is available online if you do an LBT Lead Harness Tester search.

Hope that this helps.

HHW

[hellgate]

OK Here goes a different post based on the first one that didn't completely copy:
To lead scroungers everywhere,
I think I got this info off the black powder or mlml list many,many years ago. I
would like to thank whoever originally posted it and offer my apology for
losing the original credits.
You can go to an art supply store and get a set or select individual pencils
whose core varies from [softest] 9B,>>>1B, HB, F, 1H, >>>9H[hardest]. Lead
will run about 4B or 5B, depending on purity, and linotype will run about HB,
or F. The hardest pencils will test aluminum alloys and are too hard for
lead. About 6 to 8 pencils will cover the range needed for informal casting.
To use, shave the wood away to expose the "lead" core without cutting into it
with the knife exposing 1/8-1/4". Hold the pencil vertical and sand the end
flat on fine (about) 400 grit sandpaper. Hold the pencil in a normal writing
position, and try to push the lower edge into the lead surface. If the
graphite core is harder than the alloy, it will cut into the metal or at
least seriously scratch it. If the metal is as hard  or harder than the
graphite core, it will not be able to gouge. The hardness is ranked as the
hardest graphite core that will NOT cut in. If your bullet is resistant to
pencils from 6B through 2B, but B scratches it or peels up a small shaving,
the hardness is 2B.
This isn't as exact as a Brinnel tester but cost effective enough for me. You
can reproduce your hardness but not necessarily the same cost, or castability
but all I want to know is whether it is REAL HARD, sorta hard, somewhere in
between, soft, and REAL SOFT (i.e. Smokeless rifle lead, smokeless pistol, 38
special lead, and 2 grades of black powder lead). I bought 8 pencils: H, HB,
B, 2B, 3B, 4B, 5B, & 6B.  I found that my various ingots of lead were not
sorted  so well once I pencil tested them. Wheelweights and MY BLEND of #2
alloy are about 2B and my soft cap&ball lead is 4B&5B. Be sure to use a fresh
surface as some of the heavier grey corrosion will resist the pencil core but
the underlying lead will scratch.

[Delmonico]

I have a simple system, I have bullets cast with known alloys with the Crayon point 32 lee TL.  Then I use them to see if they will scratch the alloy in question, kinda like the finger nail, nail and pocket knife test we learned in grade school for rocks.

[Delmonico]

OK, my phone rang and I got a WTH are you talking about.

Lee's Tumble Lube, 90 gr SWC that looks like the point of a crayon.



Good plinking bullet for 32 S&W Long/32 Mag with Nitro, I have about 25,000 cast up ahead.  Well see I was bored one time.

[Goatlips]

Here's sumpin' I stole from kbmoly a few years back, same thing as Hellgate's post, and yes it does work: (posted verbatim)

*****************************************************************
There's a dirt cheap test method that's widely used industrially for measuring the hardness of paint films, and I've used it with good success for lead alloy bullets. All it takes is a few art pencils from the nearest hobby shop.

Art pencils are made with a range of core hardnesses, designated (soft) 6B, 5B, 4B ... B, HB, F, H, 1H, ... 9H (hard) You'll mostly want the B pencils. Some of the H pencils can measure the hardness of sluminum alloys.

Anyhow, they're easy to use: Peel away some of the wood and expose the core. Hold the pencil straight up, and rub it on a bit of fine sandpaper to make a wadcutter tip, with sharp edges. Wipe the loose dust off on a bit of cotton, and then try to dig the shapr edge of the core into your bulet or ingot. If the lead is harder than the pencil, the pencil will just slip on the surface. If the pencil core is harder, it will cut into the lead alloy. By matching the hardness of the pencil that will cut, you can duplicate alloy hardness from batch to batch. Works great.

This pencil hardness test is actually an ASTM (American Standard Test Method), but I forget the test number. Look it up at teh library if you're interested.

HTH

kbmoly
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Goatlips

[Goatlips]

Another method that I haven't tried yet (you got a real expert here pards) but sounds good is a gun type stapler.  Just whang a staple from the same staple gun held the same way into known alloy and measure how much sticks up; compare to the ingot you're unsure about. 

But like Howdy, I don't pay much attention to my mix as it's always just WW ingots and maybe a couple inches of solder if I'm feeling frisky.

Goatlips

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Thanks, pards!

My budget sure likes the "Lead" pencil hardness tester method!