Cap Guards for 1851 navy

Colt Fanning · October 15, 2007, 01:25:32 PM

Hi,
I am interested in installing cap guards as are used on the Ruger old army on an model 1851 brass frame Pieta.
Has anyone done this? How wide should the hammer be after making it narrow where it strikes the cap?
Regards
Colt

Pettifogger · October 15, 2007, 08:28:49 PM

I've done it. Only real problem is that you have to remove the arbor in order to be able to mill the slot for the cap guard plate. Once the plate is installed and the slot milled, you just reinstall the arbor and hammer in a soft steel or brass stake like the one that was in there to start with. You can only narrow the hammer nose so much because of the slot in the hammer nose for the safety pin (unless you tig weld the slot and re-machine the hammer nose). I milled mine the same width as a Ruger, i.e., .150". Milling the hammer was the hardest part of the whole operation. That sucker was hard as a rock. Had to anneal it twice before it was soft enough to mill on my home-sized mill.

Colt Fanning · October 16, 2007, 10:34:03 AM

Thanks for the info. Pettifogger. Since my 1851's have a brass frame, I was planning to silver solder two pieces of brass to the
frame to replace the metal removed from the hammer and file them to match the shape of the frame. Does this sound
feasible? Also, did you weld up the safety notch. How effective was the modification in keeping caps out of the action?
Finally, I am considering turning a recess into the front of the cylinder and press in a sleeve that rotates with the cylinder and extends over the arbor past the breach of the barrel to keep powder residue from locking the cylinder to the arbor as was done in the model 1873 colt. Does this sound feasible?
Thanks again for your response
Colt

Pettifogger · October 16, 2007, 01:55:15 PM

Generally trying to solder two small pieces onto the frame doesn't work to well as there is really no place to solder them to, especially on the side with the cap groove. I usually solder one piece into a milled slot and then mill out the groove for the hammer. If you use good nipples, i.e., Tresos, and the proper fitting caps, i.e., Remington 10's on the Tersos, and the cap guards they will be about as reliable as a Ruger Old Army. In other words, very reliable. I've put bushings in the cylinders. You can do it OK with the .36s, but there isn't a lot of meat to work with on the .44 cylinders. I don't bush them anymore. Also, in order to make the bushing work you have to mill the back of the barrel otherwise the bushing won't slide under the back of the barrel when you try to put it on. This also makes the back of the .44 barrel pretty thin so that is another reason I don't bush .44s anymore. I'm not much of a picture taker, but see if these work. The inserts look better in real life than the pictures. The gun has been shot a lot and is also the antique finish so it looks rattier than it really is. The insert is flush with the front of the frame. In the first picture the insert extends to the left more than the right to try and span the cap groove and still leave enough material for soldering. Everything is centered from the rear as shown in picture 2.

http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee241/pettifogger1/P1000149.jpg
http://i228.photobucket.com/albums/ee241/pettifogger1/P1000150-1.jpg

Pettifogger · October 16, 2007, 02:15:36 PM

I'm trying to learn how to post photos, so this is a test. Please ignore.

Steel Horse Bailey · October 16, 2007, 05:50:26 PM

Good test. Worked both ways!

Colt Fanning · October 17, 2007, 08:52:09 AM

Thanks again for the info. Pettifogger. I have two 1851's one with Tresso and one with Pieta nipples. Both are more reliable with
Remington #11 caps rather than 10's. The 10's appear to have a longer skirt which opens up to produce more debris. This sometimes
jams between the cylinder and the frame. I recently saw Capt. George Baylor at the Southwest Regionals and ask him whether the mods we discussed were legal. After discussing them he quipped "You can make a fine plainsman pistol from an 1851 with about
$ 1200 worth of machining.
Regards
Colt

Colt Fanning · October 17, 2007, 10:15:56 AM

One more question.
There is a approx .010 horizontal misallignment between the barrel and cylinder in the same direction on both guns. With a big 11 deg forcing cone and using 40 cal balls swedged into the cylinder the gun shoots fairly well but far to the left. This has been corrected with offset sights. With .375 balls the guns still shoot to the left and with a fairly large scatter. If I decided to correct this is it better to: A. Reset the index pins in the frame? ( barrel will protrude from the frame on one side. or B. Move the locking bolt in the frame
by milling out the frame and shimming on one side.
Thanks again.
Colt