Powder

[grymster2007]

I didn't want to hijack the thread on KIK powder, but it got me thinking.

Now that my revolver is on order, I'll be needing some powder. I have a very old 1 lb. can of Pyrodex and tried it in my Plains pistol. It was fine, but what might you experienced folks use? Is this KIK stuff something a newbie might want? GOEX, Pyrodex, Triple Seven? Also, don't know that I need 25 lbs laying around.  I'll only have the one revolver (at least until the itch to buy an 1863 Pocket overcomes good sense) and if I'm not working at work, the little woman wants me working at home, so not a lot of time to deplete the supply.

Another thought is: where do I store this stuff? Garage? Basement? Pantry? Wine Cellar?

grym

[Dick Dastardly]

Only one possible economic answer to yer question.  Since Holy Black runs so much less in full case (25 Lb.) quantities, it only makes sense to get more black powder guns.  Forsake the way of the foul heathen fad smokeyless powder and come all the way to the enjoyable enlightenment of the Genuine Powder.  Allow the pure black powder and it's pure white smoke to purge every vestige of the heathen way.

Come, good company and real enjoyment are only a few pounds of powder away.

You will find that with only a little encouragement, many of your former heathen guns will find true happiness in a steady diet of black powder ammunition.  I've known only a very few heathen eating firearms that failed to forget the falsehood of the frightful chemical mix known as "smokeyless" powder.  (Notice the quotes containing the foul name).

Welcome Grasshopper, the way of powder purity lies ahead.  Become one of us and know the brotherhood of the BOOM!

DD-DLoS

[grymster2007]

Welcome Grasshopper, the way of powder purity lies ahead.  Become one of us and know the brotherhood of the BOOM!

'Bout halfway there! You fellers keep postin' the purdy pichers and yur bound to push me over the top!

BTW Dick, you have a background in economics or something??? More BP guns to justify the discount on the bulk powder? All makes sense to me! Can't wait to tell the wife about the financial guru I met online.... or.... well... maybe not yet!

[sundance44`s]

Just bought a case 25 lbs of the KIK powder , was a good price for alot of powder 257.00 to my front pourch .
Storeing that much powder ...good question ..If I lived in the city I wouldn`t have a clue ..Liveing out in the country I have a little hay barn thats about 100 yards from the house it`s cool and powder house dry in there ..nice place to store me powder ..I only keep a pound or two on the loading bench at a time in the house . I`d say just find the dryest place you can for that much powder ...Me and the wife both do alot of shooting , most weekends so we go through alot of powder ...then there`s always the friends that want a lb or 2 ...so it won`t take us long at all . I didn`t feel like I had a choice though ..the only place I could buy black powder local is a Bass Pro store 45 mins away ..and they want 25 bucks a lb for their Goex ...I don`t think they really want to stock it due to the regulations they have on storeing it ,,, they can keep the pyrodex and other subs out on the shelves and you have to ask for the Goex because it`s in a special containment in a back room . So it looks like to me they would just as soon price their selves out of the Goex business .

[litl rooster]

I store mine in a Igloo cooler.....Prices may very on the brands you buy but I have found Shutezen brand for around $3 less per pound.  In which I bought to offset the cost of shot for my shotshells.  I have tried it in all my loads now and see no difference in my loads for cowboy loads. When I finish up the 10 pounds or so Goex I may jump ship.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy!

Swiss and 777 are the big ticket powders, with APP and Pinnacle coming in close.  I've tried Goex, Elephant, the old Clear/Clean Shot (the one that doesn't exist now, but is APP or close), LIDU, Pyrodex and a couple others.  The ones I've mentioned by name  have been fairly recently.  I haven't been able to tell much difference between 'em, except at the cash register.  Notice - Swiss is NOT on my list!  I mention this because Swiss, due to its manufacturing purity and burn quality, is in a different class of substance called "Sporting Powder."  This is reflected in its price.  And performance.  I think there's another powder that can be labeled like Swiss, but the name escapes me.  Anyhoo - the others, at least the real BPs and Pyrodex, not the sweet stuff - like APP and Pinnacle - pretty much perform the same in my situations.  If I were a competition shooter, I'd probably use Swiss.  If I were a hunter, probably 777 or Swiss, as both are noticeably more "energetic" (read - powerful) per volume load.  I also found that the Pyrodex 30 gr. pistol pellets packed more of an apparent wallop than 30 grs. of loose 3f LIDU and/or Goex.  I have a theory on that, however.  Again, this is just MY theory, but - the pellets were a precisely measured amount from the factory - a true 30 grs. (and Pyrodex IS more powerful per WEIGHT - not volume) and I was measuring it against loose powder thrown from a flask and a spout cut for 30 grs. by VOLUME , which when measured for weight, usually comes to around 26 grs.    Are you totally corn-fused yet?  My point - well, buy what you want and can find, at the best price you can afford.  Most will perform about the equally.  Some will be dirtier (LIDU, Goex) some won't need special lubes or soft bullets (APP, 777, Pinnacle, etc.) but excepting 777 & Swiss, they'll act about the same, IMHO.

Storage?  You gotta decide that for yourself.  25 lbs. for you WILL be cheapest, but until Dick's theory kicks in, might be too much powder to have around - and might be too MUCH quantity for safe storage, as well.  Right now, I have about 10 lbs. of BP, maybe 20 lbs. of smokeyless, and 10K of primers - with a few hundred percussion caps thrown in - stored in various places in my area.  I already KNOW that IF I have a fire, and if I tell the firemen (I would), my house will burn.  I've already talked about it with a Fireman friend.  They'll do what they have to to save US people, but they won't try hard to save the house - so as not to endanger any more lives than necessary.  Sounds cold - but I understand.  It was part of my decision making process.  I also have pretty up-to date, inspected wiring, NONE of my family or friends smoke (inside the house, at least - a couple DO smoke  ) and my wife isn't much of a candle fiend.    No fireplace or pilot lights.  Also, I've got things stored and arranged in good, dark, cool places - with allowances for pressure release in case of trouble.

There.  I've bored ya long enough.  I've written a lot but I did it so to help you make your decision(s).  Remember - this is what works for ME, not necessarily what'll be best for you.

[Noz]

Here's an answer to an unasked question.

Try SKIRMISH powder for the shotgun. Runs around $6 a pound around here. Large granulation. Probably Fg but works fine. A little slower than real black(GOEX) but for cowboy it's just fine. Big boom and lots of smoke. May need to wipe the barrels down in the middle of a long match.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Hey Nozzle Rag - is that a powder used for cannons and/or re-enactors?

[grymster2007]

Money isn't the issue, but I am concerned about having 25 lbs of explosives at the house. I think I'll go with a few 1 lb cans for the time being. Maybe I'll try a couple different ones and see what I like. Might be overboard, but I'm concerned about just a few pounds of this stuff.

I live on acre of oak forest and the threat of fire is a huge concern. There are no out-buildings I could use for storage but the house is fairly large. The basement covers a couple thousand square feet and might be a good place to store powder as long as it were far away from the furnace, but the humidity is rather high in there. The wine cellar's humidity runs even higher. I don't like the garage, because of the greater availability of ignition sources, such as when I'm working in there or smoking a cigar while I'm working. In the house proper would probably be unacceptable to the little woman. 

Maybe the basement in an Igloo cooler with a considerable load of desiccant would be best???

In any case, I sure do appreciate all the help and your kind treatment of a new guy.

grym

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

First, check your local fire regulations. Real Black Powder like Goex, Elephant, Schuetzen, Swiss, Kik are classified by the Federal Government as Explosives. Local regulations can be very restrictive about storage of these, and your insurance company will definitely be very concerned. Take a walk down to the local firehouse and make a little inquiry without revealing too much. The BP substitutes like Pyrodex, 777, and APP are not classified by the Federal Government as explosives, they are classified the same as progressively burning modern Smokeless Powders. Local storage regulations for the BP subs are usually the same as for Smokeless powders.

Two of those subs, 777 and APP are the easiest to work with. They do not require special bullet lubes to keep the fouling moist. Real BP on the other hand does require special BP compatible bullet lube. 777 packs more punch, pound for pound, than any of the other subs.

As far as storage is concerned, an igloo container will do nothing. If the contents are already cold, they will keep it colder longer. If the contents are room temperature, it will do nothing. An igloo container is far from airtight, so any humidity in the surrounding air will find its way right in. Dessicants are useful up to a point. After they have sat in moist air for a time they become saturated with moisture. Once they are suturated they are useless and must be replaced with a new dry one. A dessicant sitting in an igloo container wil absorb moisture leaking into the container for a little while, then once it becomes saturated it is completely useless and the humidity of the interior of the igloo container will come to equilibrium with the room air. ( I have a lot of experience with moisture in sealed containers.)

The very best way to store gunpowder of any sort is in its original container, whether it is metal or plastic. The seal is designed to be airtight. As long as the lid is tightly sealed, you can store gunpowder, whether Smokeless or BP, in a relatively humid room. All my powder is stored in my basement, and it is just as damp in the summer as anybody else's basement. I just make sure to tightly seal the lids. A metal powder can like Goex comes in may develop some rust on the outside, but if the can is well sealed, the powder will remain dry. Store it in a relatively cool place, far away from any sources of ignition. Those two issues are more important than the humidity of the room as long as the cans are well sealed.

[Dr. Bob]

Howdy,

A good solution for storage is using an old refrigerator.  Designed to hold the cold in, it will hold the heat out!  Doesn't need to be running! Just needs to close tightly!  Put the primers in there too!  If it gets hot enough to set it off, won't make much difference at that point. 

[Wills Point Pete]

 I have steel shelving in my gun/reloading room. I just have the stuff stored on the shelves. Of course no one smokes in there and I live out in the country. When I lived in town (hated it) I had an old refrigerator that had quit working. I stored my powder in it. A Fridge has enough insulation where, in case of fire, the contents won't go up until it is too late to save the house, anyway. Plus the fridge is waterproof, with your acre of oak forest you could even keep it outside, ahint a tree.

Do check with your Pards, it is easy to find folks to split a 25 pound case of The Holy Black. The price comes down the more you buy and there is only one $20.00 HazMat fee per shipment. Ask around and you can really save some money.

[Wills Point Pete]

 Boy that Dr. Bob sure is smart!

[Dr. Bob]

Boy howdy!  That Wills Point Pete sure is one smart feller!

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Boy that Dr. Bob sure is smart!

Boy howdy!  That Wills Point Pete sure is one smart feller!

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[Noz]

Hey Nozzle Rag - is that a powder used for cannons and/or re-enactors?

I think so. The pards here at the Southern Missouri Rangers started using it in shotguns. Cheap and works well. Volume to volume it shoots a little softer and slower but with plenty of authority for the usual knockdown.
I tried it in my 1860s and it is just too dirty for that. Shot well and looked good, just really caked things up. I'm told that indicates a larger than normal percentage of charcoal.