original loads for original trapdoor springfield rifles

[Tater Pickens]

Do any of you guys who have researched original cartridges know whether the 45-70 was loaded with 2f or 3f? And if the original loading was in 2f, do you have an idea of what a load of 3f would be comparable? I have an 1884 model rifle and have loaded 60 grns of schutzen 3f but it seems to be right stout. It may be on the money of the original load of 70 grns but I don't have any 2f on hand if that's what it should be and didn't want to  order just a can or two and pay the hazmat fee until I needed to place a larger order for 3f for my colt pistols and winchester 44-40 rifles. In the meantime I did not want to be abusing my rifle with too stout a load of 3f-that is why I am calling on any of you guys who may have been down this road before and know what would be  a good equivalent of schutzen 3f to what ever the original loading was. I believe the carbines were down loaded some from the rifles but this is a rifle.

Thanks in advance for your usual helpful knowledge and insight.

Tater Pickens

[Arizona Trooper]

3F is pretty fast for 45-70. 2F Swiss, or even 1.5F Swiss will work a lot better. Even if you reduce the load, 3F burns much faster than 2F, so your results will be different. I have chronographed a lot of 45-70s, and different brands of powder produce very different velocities. Swiss is about the fastest, followed by old DuPont, old GOEX, old Elephant, and finally old Curtis & Harvey. I haven't checked the newer offerings yet.

Swiss 2F produces about 1200 fps with the Lyman 457125 bullet (~535 grains) from a rifle. I would imagine that GOEX or Scheutzen 3F would be in about the same league or maybe a bit faster.

The original load was "rifle powder", which is roughly equivalent to FF.

[Drydock]

If you have a Trapdoor,  GET THIS BOOK!     http://www.the45-70book.com/The-Book-3rd-Edition-by-Spence-Pat-Wolf


It will show you what you need and how to load Milspec .45-70 ammunition that will match the sights on your Trapdoor.

[JimBob]

The original loadings for this cartridge called for 70 grains of "musket" powder which as Arizona Trooper says is roughly a 2F granulation in todays powder.The 1873 loading using the 405 grain hollow base bullet had a muzzle velocity of 1350 FPS,the 1882 loading using the 500 grain round nose bullet had a muzzle velocity of 1315.7 FPS.The carbine loads used a 55 grain powder charge with the 405 grain bullet giving a muzzle velocity of 1100 FPS.Coming up with a 3F equivalent loading would best be attempted by chronographing various loadings to duplicate the original "musket" powder loads although 3F is a bit fine grained for the Trapdoor.

+1 on Spence Wolfe's book.

[wildman1]

2F. My 1884 is the most accurate at about 1150 fps. Old Dupont 2f gives me that with 55g 2F, Goex gives me that with with 60g 2F. 405 gr bullet. WM