How to convert an original Spencer to use for CAS??

[Irish John]

You never know when good deeds will be rewarded.  We have neighbors, an older couple, who we took under our wing when they retired from their farm and moved to our neighborhood several years ago.  Last night we had them over for dinner and they brought with them a package of some sort.  Wondered what it was and was told to wait till after dinner.  Over coffee, they handed me the package and said they wanted me to have this as an appreciation of our friendship.  Opening the package I found an orignial Spencer carbine in VERY nice shape!  What a nice gift, eh?  The fellow told me he aquired the carbine probably 50 years ago in some trading and used to have it hanging over the fireplace in their old home.  He said he knew of my interest in older firearms and hoped that I would like it.

I would like to shoot this Spencer and have heard that there may be a way to change the action to shoot modern center fire cartrideges.  Can any one help me with this?  What cartridge and where to get the parts, brass and dies?

[Deadeye Don]

Oh my.  Seems your generosity has rewards prior to heaven!!  You are one lucky guy to have that Spencer AND to have such good friends.   I am sure someone here will help you out.

[Two Flints]

Irish John,

Just do a search on the SSS first page.  Lots of info here on conversions for original Spencers.  Check the ORI thread (Often Requested Information) near the top of the first page.

Two Flints

[Major 2]

Contact S&S Firearms , I've had two of their upper breach blocks for almost 30 years....
they were  a one screw drop end & work perfectly
I think Dixie Gun Works also carries a brand too.


you lucky dog 

[Harve Curry]

LUCK OF THE IRISH, eh!
Let us know what model ya got.

[Trailrider]

Congratulations, Pard!

What model and caliber is your Spencer?  S&S' conversion breechblock is advertised to fit "95% of Spencers".  In my case, I had one of the "other 5%", and had to do a bit of filing on the central fire block to get it to fit.  I also set the firing pin striker up as an inertial type so that I don't HAVE TO cock the hammer before working the action.  The other item that is ABSOLUTELY A MUST, is the FLATNOSED magazine follower.  S&S used to sell on made of brass...probably still do.  The nose is actually slightly cupped.  For my money, I'd really like a nylon (plastic) one.  Also, when you make or buy your brass, be SURE the primers are seated slightly BELOW the surface of the shell head!  A magazine explosion COULD RUIN YOUR WHOLE DAY! 

If the carbine is a M1860, chambered for .56-56, you will have a bit more hassle making ammo, since the original cartridges used heel bullets with outside lube.  As I never liked that arrangement, I did a lot of experimenting and found I could use .535-.538" inside lubed bullets and get decent accuracy.  The M1860's appear (from the ones I've examined) have tapered rifling, from .545 at the breech to .535" at the muzzle.

If you use cut down .50-70 brass you may need to neck ream to the depth of the bullet base, and to anneal about half the length of the case. I set up a pot of water on a plastic lazy susan, with a pill bottle full of water and spare bullets (to keep it from floating in the pan).  The cartridge case is set on top of the pill bottle, and the water level brought up about halfway between the case mouth and the head.  A propane torch will probably get the case hot enough.  You turn the lazy susan so the case is heated evenly around.  When the brass is discolored, tip it over, off the pill bottle and the anneal will be quenched in.

I haven't gotten my hands on a modern repro in .56-50, so I can't say, but would imaging making .56-50 ammo would be easier as the brass is available in that cartridge.

Frankly, I'm a bit leary about shooting my Spencer nowadays, even with black powder or a BP substitute.  Not because there is any apparent sign of problems, but out of deference to a 147 year old gun.  If you do intend to shoot it, have it checked by a gunsmith who is intimately familiar with antique firearms, especially Spencers.  These rifles were made of what we now call "wrought iron", though it was called "malleable" iron then.  Malleable iron by today's terminology is a CAST iron, which this ain't!

[Not responsible for accidents or incidents resulting from the use of the above information!]

Ride careful, Pard!

[Bead Swinger]

Congratulations!  What a find! Send Pictures! Serial Numbers! 

I can't speak for the safety of your gun, nor even my own, but the old girls are a hoot to shoot. The 56-56 is a big, fun cartridge. You definitely want to load on the 'short' side out of respect for age.  Personally, I've experimented with BP, 777, and even Trail Boss, and cast my own .535 Heeled Rapine.

Do look through the ORI threads - there's lot's of great info, including all of the sources.  Don't hesitate to ask questions - there are lots of people on the list who are willing to help and/or advise.

If you're into casting, you might want to try to order a Rapine mold before they really go out of business . That was a fairly recent thread on this forum.

[Two Flints]

Hi Bead Swinger,

Rapine is still in business and he has been answering his phone of late.  Spoke to him just last week.  So Rapine is still in business and taking orders for his Spencer Moulds.

Two Flints