More Original .44 Henry Ctgs.

[Fox Creek Kid]

Go here & scroll down a tad:  http://www.oldammo.com/pictures.htm

[Montana Slim]

Interesting that one of the cases has a number of firing pin strikes.

Could be an example of a rim-fire cartridge case that was reloaded. I've read that Indians had crude but ingenious methods of doing this.

Slim

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Interesting that one of the cases has a number of firing pin strikes.

Could be an example of a rim-fire cartridge case that was reloaded. I've read that Indians had crude but ingenious methods of doing this.

Slim

Yep!

A gun dealer I used to know (now deceased, RIP) said that Eskimos have been reloading 22s for MANY decades which they use to kill seals.  He said that as a kid, during WWII when all reloading components and factory 22s were VERY scarce, that he did it.

Basically, it involves CAREFULLY cutting the striker tips off of "strike anywhere" kitchen matches, soaking them in a solution (of what - I forget, but maybe alcohol) to get a paste, spinning the empty case at pretty decent RPM and then dropping one drop of the paste into the spinning case - the centrifugal force took care of getting the paste into the rim.  He said they had plenty of lead, so they cast new bullets and when the cases with the "primer" paste was dry, they used 3f or 4f Black Powder, seated the bullet (I don't remember IF or what they did about a crimp, but a "stab"-type crimp might work) then shot them.  He said he and his Dad put a lot of meat on the table during those lean times with these reloads.  He mentioned that you only had to watch how you chambered the round so an un-hit section of the rim was there for the firing pin.

I bet this method would work just as well in ANY rimfire case/round.

[sundance44`s]

SteelHorse thats the method I read the Indians were useing to reload the 44 Henry rounds ...and the artical I read said it was alcohol they used to make the paste .....bet they hated useing the firewater that way ...lol

[Driftwood Johnson]

Howdy

Thanks for the link, Fox Creek Kid. That's a great website, I like visting it everyonce in a while, to see what's new.

Pards, although I have read about how ingeniuos the Indians were at reloading rimfire ammo, if you read the body of the text, he makes a more plausible explanation for why this particular round was probably just struck multiple times to make it fire.

[Montana Slim]

Howdy Back!
If it were me, two or or even three attempts to fire cartridge would be enough & it would be tossed, and the gun woud be repaired to fire reliably.

I read the body fully before posting and consider it to be plausible, however, IMO, it's equal or more plausible that the rilfe owner trimmed-down the firing pins and/or lightened the hammer-fall to reduce flattening damage to the rims when fired...the intent being less distortion of the rim and thus easier reloading and longer case life.

My dad has several RF's including .41 & .32 RF, plus a .44 cal C.W. Carbine. We shoot them all, using both RF cartridges and by loading the .22 adapter cases from Dixie. BTW, the Carbine is dandy accurate.

Next chance I have to borrow one of my Dad's .32 RF's, I'l fire a few genuine RF cartridges and save the cases for an experiment. I have a stock of old Italian percussion caps. Should be able to make a nice priming paste with them. Acetone or alcohol for a thinner. This is the method I have envisioned the Indians used as percussion caps were plentiful, availlable in many sizes and they reportedly even used them to reload centerfire cartridges. Think of all the wonderful surplus stuff from the C.W. such as Sharps primer discs, Priming tape, etc. that were cheep....practically free compared to trading for/buying them new-fangled factory cartridges.


Slim

[w44wcf]

Kid,
Thank you for the link. Interesting history!

w44wcf

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy Back!
If it were me, two or or even three attempts to fire cartridge would be enough & it would be tossed, and the gun woud be repaired to fire reliably.

Slim

Don't ferget - we have access to WAY more ammo than they often did.  It may have been the ONLY round available at the time.  I b'lieve I'd keep trying that cartridge if my dinner ... or life depended on it!

[sundance44`s]

If those multi hit rounds were fired from a Henry ..they have my sympathy turning it just right and loading it one at a time ..I`d have a hard time with out worring about my dinner or being dinner .

[Steel Horse Bailey]

 

[Montana Slim]

If those multi hit rounds were fired from a Henry ..they have my sympathy turning it just right and loading it one at a time ..I`d have a hard time with out worring about my dinner or being dinner .

I'd guess they used the reloaded rounds one at a time.....probably with a magazine held in reserve with factory cartridges to be used "just in case".... At least that is what I'd do......Generally (not referring to other posters on this topic), its seem like modern folk don't give Indians much credit for intelligence.

There are multiple failure modes of a reloaded cartridge, all but one is adequately addressed by ejecting & loading a fresh cartridge.

As noted earlier, I've fired a number of different RF weapons. My confidence of making a "kill" at up to 50yds would be quite high using my Pa's .44 CW Carbine (2-trigger Wesson) loaded with his handloaded cartridges (.22RF adapter cartridge with BP and RB). Extraction can be difficult at times, easy at others, so I'm not going to "brag" beyond the first shot.

Slim

[sundance44`s]

One thing for sure when times are hard necessity is the mother of invention ...

[Buck Stinson]

Here are a few original boxes of Henry Flat ammo from my collection.  The top one is a Winchester box which is marked "For Winchester Rifle Model of 1866".  The other two boxes are both Rem-UMC.  All boxes are full and the one on the bottom right has the price of .50 cents written on the end lable.  None of these are very early and all date to the late teens or early 20's.  The rifle is an original 1866 brass frame made in 1869.  I bought it several years ago from an estate here in Montana.

Adios,
Buck