Triple 7 in .44 WCF in an 1866 Yellow Boy

[Oregon Bill]

Anyone loading Triple 7 for their .44-40 lever guns? What's your load, and is it safe in the toggle-link Winchesters and Henrys?

[Grapeshot]

I was loading a 2.2 cc's of 777 and compressing the load to seat a 205 grain RCBS hard cast RNFP touched off by a magnum pistol primer. (CCI 350).  This proved to be a little much for a target at one of the matches I went to.  If I were to use 777 again, I'd drop the charge to 1.6 cc's of 777.  I use Lee dippers in 0.3 cc increments.  Yes, this was out of an 1866 Yellowboy carbine.

[44caliberkid]

Yes, I have loaded 777 in my 1866.  Put enough in the case that the seated bullet just touches the powder.

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy!

Those guns are proofed for standard SAAMI spec. smokeyless loads.  They should easily and safely handle the loads with 777.

[Montana Slim]

Fired 5 rds of Full 44-40 777 loads one day (a pard was trying to use these up)...it  did cause the ejector stud to work out of the barrel on my ASM 1873 "Colt" (on rd #4). Didn't have a crony at hand, but I'd estimate near 1,000 fps.

I'd be leary of full 777 loads in any of the larger case capacity cartridges such as 45 Colt, 44-40, 38-40, etc.

Slim

[rifle]

In cartridges the norm seems to be to load FFg BLACKPOWDER and fill the case so the bullet sits on the powder. Well if FFg 777 is hotter than FFFg black (which it is)the rest is just logical deduction. Use less FFg 777 than you would FFFg black unless you want heavier hunting loads. Now if FFg 777 is hotter than FFFg black and the norm is to use FFg black in cartridges that can give a chance for another logical deduction. Use even less FFg777 than you would normally figure. The fact that FFg 777 is hotter than FFFg black gives the logical conclusion that FFFg777 is real hot and should be avoided in cartridges. I know the guns can shoot nominal smokeless loads but......there's more info and more load data to follow with smokeless. Smokeless doesn't have to fill the case either as FFg or FFFg 777. I kinda feel like the "kick" of 777 is somehow different than black for sure but somehow different than smokeless too. I've never seen data of pressure/time curves or graphs comparing black,777.and smokeless but I would enjoy putting something like that in my brains little memory bank. I've tested 777 mostly in my cap&ballers. It can be hard on them for sure if the 777 loads aren't reduced a good bit. I've learned to shy away from FFFg 777 in cap&ballers and cartridges. There doesn't seem to be enough incentive on my part to want to deal with FFFg 777 when I can use smokeless and have so much more data to follow. One thing I could deduce would be if I were to have a need to use 777 to make smoke I'd try a shorter cartridge like the famous 45SPECIAL that is now available. In 38cal. I'd gravitate towards the 38Colt or the shorter 38SW. I have tested the shorter 38's and they are cool with the use of FFg 777. My wife likes the lack of recoil when we shoot stones on the crest of the gravel road in front of the cabin(trailer ha ha ) or cans from beans or corn. The 38cal. can be pretty accurate with FFg777. In the short cases like 38's even FFFg 777 isn't bad. I guess because not much of it is used. The biggest two factors that draw me towards 777 used in cap&ballers or cartridges is the accuracy in pistol cartridges and the lack of the worry about cleaning as soon as possible as with black.  Anywhoooo that's my take on the subject.  What do I prefer the most you ask? ha ha Well any self respecting hillbilly woodsman white trash(old pick-ups in the yard) ground hog eatin mountain man like me will tell you. It's the Holy Black that gets my vote. Always did and always will. Goex is the powder for me. I've used it for decades and have come to realize it can be depended on. I've got a coupla cans over the years that must have come from a bad batch but besides that Goex has always brought home the bacon. My freezer will attest to that. Goex is dirty? Yep it is. Just like any black powder. So what. I've learned to like the smell of black powder fouling. It conjures up images of big bucks and colorful fall days with grouse coverts and cap&ball revolvers or beautiful winter days afield when the snow sticks to everything turning the world white and mystic. I want a dirty "blackpowder fouled" gun put in my casket when I'm layed to rest. That would suit me just fine and keep the urban yuppies from kneeling down to spit in my cheap pine coffin. 

[w44wcf]

Hodgdon instructions for 777 indicate to leave no airspace, and do not use fillers.

Using that information, I found that 22 grs. by weight of 777 was the proper amount  to be used in Winchester brand .44-40 cases with the 427098 bullet (215 grs.).

Velocities produced in a 21" barrel were:
Winchester Large Pistol primer - 1,193 f.p.s.
Federal 155 Magnum Pistol primer - 1,230 f.p.s.

5 shot groups @ 50 yards were in the 1 1/2" range for both.

Turns out that performance was pretty much identical to the early .44-40 b.p. loading which was a 217 gr. bullet at 1,190 f.p.s. (The .44 W.C.F. used a 200 gr. bullet @ 1,245 f.p.s.)

I also tried the 200 gr. hard cast commercial bullets, but the accuracy was not nearly as good with groups @ 50 yards in the 3-4" range.

Have fun!

w44wcf