Negligent Discharge

[Fox Creek Kid]

I was rightfully DQ'd from a CAS match today with my Spencer. Here's what happened. An ejected case landed horizontally under the hammer. Since I cock the hammer before racking the lever I had pulled the trigger and of course no round fired. I looked at the hammer & saw the casing and out of habit (years of shooting semi-auto pistols) I wiped the "stovepipe" away and then the hammer fell. The hammer was not engaged as it had only fallen sufficient to hang on the spent case. The shot went over the berm as I had lifted the rifle up to look & see why it didn't fire as I wear bifocals. My own stupid fault. Just goes to show you that you do under stress what you've trained for in the past. Man I felt bad.  I've had this happen at least once before (w/o a negligent discharge), hence I always try to cant the rifle to one side when ejecting.

[Two Flints]

Fox Creek,

Out of curiosity, what is beyond the berm or in the direction of the fired round?  At my shooting club back in Massachusetts, the members are all in an tizzy because the empty tract of land next to our club was purchased by a private developer and he has plans for an apartment complex.  Now it seems our long range rifle berm is not tall enough or wide enough to calm the fears of our members.

Two Flints

[Fox Creek Kid]

It really doesn't matter. Most ranges with a berm will DQ you from the match for firing over the berm. Period. FWIW, farmland lay beyond, however there was a farm house about 1/4 - 1/2 mi. away, but my shot went left into acres of cropland.

[Will Ketchum]

Well I know it doesn't help to say ADs happen to nearly everyone who shoots a lot.  At least it was pointed in a relatively safe direction.  Perhaps the rest of us will learn from your incident.

Just out of curiosity, do you always cock the hammer first?  The few times I have shot a Spencer I have worked the lever first and then cocked the hammer.  I have no idea what the SOP is.

Will Ketchum

[Grizzle Bear]

FCK:

Good thing to watch for.  I always work the lever SMARTLY and the empties are flung clear of everything.

Will:

Yes, SOP with a Spencer is to cock first, then work the lever.  If you worked the lever with the hammer down there is a (very small) chance of firing the round as the breech closes.

GB

[Two Flints]

Will,

On my Spencer .45 Schofields, I go to half cock, work the lever, then full cock and fire.

Two Flints

[Mick Archer]

  Howdy Pards!

  It is "interesting" that the only "manual' for use of a Spencer (Gersom Barber's unofficial 1864 one for the Ohio Sharpshooters' rifles) ) keeps the hammer down.
  I have always brought the hammer to half-cock and then worked the lever.
  I suspect Barber's instructions were just a carry-over from the percussion muzzleloaders where the hammer is initially left down on the spent cap during the loading process  (ostensibly to prevent a draft that could fan an ember) until the PRIME sequence.

  To load from a shoulder.

Load.

One time and three motions.

(First motion.) Raise the piece slightly with the right hand, making a half face to the right on the left heel, carry the right foot to the rear and place it at right angles to the left, the hollow of it opposite to and against the left heel, grasp the piece with the left hand at the lower band and detach it slightly from the shoulder.
(Second motion.) Bring down the piece with both hands, the barrel upwards, the left thumb extending along the stock, the but below the right forearm, the small  of the stock against the body and two inches below the right breast, the muzzle as high as the eye---the left elbow against the side, at the same time take the guard-lever between the first two fingers.

(Third motion.) Throw forward the guard-lever as far as it will go briskly and as briskly return it against the stock and seize the piece with the right hand at the small of the stock, without deranging the position of the but.

Shoulder---Arms.

One time and two motions.

(First motion.) Throw up the piece briskly with the left hand and resume the position of shoulder arms---at the same time face to the front turning on the left heel and bring the right heel on a line with the left.
(Second motion.) Drop the left hand by the side.

Ready.

One time and three motions.

(First motion.) The same as the first motion of load.

(Second motion.) The same as the second motion of load, except place at the same time the right thumb on the head of the hammer, the fingers under and against the guard-lever.
(Third motion.) Cock and seize the piece at the small of the stock without deranging the position of the but.

Aim.

One time and one motion.

Raise the piece with both hands and support the but against the right shoulder; the left elbow down, the right as high as the shoulder; incline the head upon the but so that the right eye may perceive quickly the notch of the hausse, the front sight and the object aimed at; the left eye closed, the right thumb extended along the stock, the forefinger on the trigger.
When the men are formed in two ranks to execute the firings, the front rank men will raise a little less the right elbow, and the rear rank men will carry the right foot about eight inches to the right and towards the left heel of the man next on the right, inclining the upper part of the body forward.

Fire.

One time and one motion.

Press the forefinger against the trigger, fire without lowering or turning the head, and remain in this position.

Recover---Arms.

One time and one motion.

At the first part of the command withdraw the finger from the trigger; at the word arms retake the position of the third motion of ready.

Shoulder---Arms.

One time and one motion.

At the command shoulder place the thumb upon the hammer and seize the small of the stock with the right hand. At the command arms bring up the piece briskly to the right shoulder and retake the position of shoulder arms.

   Mick Archer

[mtmarfield]

   Greetings, FCK!

   Consider your CAS Safety Training time well spent! You had it pointing down range, and that's a hell of a lot better than some! It happens.
   The 'percussion slides' on my Romano and my Armi Sport are spring loaded, and I believe they're intended to be inertial; with the hammer down, the pin should not protrude from the breech face. You should be able to cycle the action with the hammer down, and the pin shouldn't protrude enough to scrape the primer. The pin on my Armi Sport leaves a slightly visible score on MY primers with the hammer down; a light stoning should eliminate that.
   Have a gunsmith check your Spencer; if the pin protrudes from the breechface when the hammer is at forward rest, see if he can stone it down flush. If he can, then you can cycle the action in safety with the hammer down.

   Be Well!

           M.T.Marfield:.
               7-15-07

[Appalachian Ed]

My Romano has a floating pin and I cycle it with the hammer down. I would not want to work the action on a full cocked Spencer. You could "Jar" the lock or trigger and fire the gun this way. I have a Light 3lb. 1oz. pull on my Spencer, and it would be easy to discharge by accident.

[Harve Curry]

Rim fires were different. There was no protruding point as on a central fire.
Looking at my original, the rim-fire firing pin is a flat bar Both top and bottom corners of it were made round, where it protrudes from the bolt face. This facilitates the firing pin sliding over the rim on closing or opening the action, without anything getting sheard off.

My central fire breech block was custom made by copying the original by a machinist who had access to a duplicating mill.
It has a spring to bring the central fire pin back,  BUT, the heavy hammer spring over-rides it easily. I go to 1/2 cock then cycle the action, then full cock to shoot.

[Tuolumne Lawman]

On the original I just got from Major 2, the firing pin  is not inertial, so I have to at least half cock it, or the firning pin is locking the block by being engaged in the dented primer.  Most Armi Sport are at least partially inertial, and can be cocked with the hammer down.

[French Jack]

My Armi Sport is NOT inertial on the firing pin.  The hammer spring is strong enough to overcome the firing pin retractor spring, and when the hammer is down, the pin protrudes from the block face.  It is strong enough to definitely dimple the primer, and possibly could be broken by opening the breech with the hammer down.  I always go to half cock to allow the firing pin to retract before opening the action, then to full cock when the action is closed on a fresh round.  Most of the older firearm designs had the same problem.  Rimfires were not as much a problem, but many of the early centerfires were apt to break a firing pin if not half cocked or the pressure removed from the firing pin prior to opening the action (ones with falling or sliding blocks ).

[Tuolumne Lawman]

Of the half dozen I have handled in 3 calibers, most were "semi-inertial", and protruded slightly, but not enough to prevent opening the breech.  One was totally inertial, and one was totally non-inertial and would lock the breech closed until cocked.