1866 in Centerfire?

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Does anyone have any information, or references on the 1866 in .44 Henry cf?

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

I do not have specific information but in all the reading I have done , the Henry and the 1866 were converted to 44 Henry Flat C.F. and I do know for a fact that S & W Produced some of the 3rd Model Pistols in 44 Henry R. F. and C.F. later. Some of the S & W 3rd models were converted to C.F. from the Henry RF too. I have seen a couple original '66's and Henry's that had been converted to C.F. for sale on Gunbroker, in fact I believe there is one available right now.

I have handled an original Henry that was converted to C.F. and the owner thought it was 44 Russian, but I tend to believe that it was really 44 Henry Flat C.F. since the chambering is almost exactly the same dimensions. The 44 Russian case is just .072 longer than the Henry Flat C.F.

I think that 44 Henry C.F. or 44 Russian would be the only cartridge that they could convert to due to the short opening in the top of the frame and the elevator block being so short.

[Texas John Critter]

I have seen and held in my hot little hands a 66 in CF.  Said it was a converted, I have no idea if they ever made them that way from the factory.  Very interesting gun, I wish I had the coin for it.  They had it in the Gun Library at the Dundee, MI Cabelas.  If you ask nice they will dang near let you look at anything in that place.  They do get nervous when I start spinning the 1st Gen Colts though.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

Awhile back, I was looking through Cartridges of the World, 3d Ed.  The dimensions of the .44 Henry Flat rf, the .44 S&W American, and the .44 Henry cf were all about the same.

There is some references to the original S&W No. 3 being made in .44 Henry Flat.  I think these are the ones sold to Turkey about the same time as the 1866 Musket, like those used at Plevna.  By then the centrefire was coming into demand, and the simple remedy would be to merely change the location of the firing pin.  VOILA'  The .44 American!

In COTW 3d. there is speculation by Barnes to the .44 Henry cf was an 1873 developement, just prior to the switchover to the '73 about that year.  I am trying to track down a reference to a much later special order run for a south american customer.  Anyone got any info?

Isn't it interesting that the .44 American and the .44 Henry (both types) are related!

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

I have a copy of The Handloader's Manual of Cartridge Conversions. pg. 563  It says the 44 Henry C.F. is a C.F. version of the 44 Henry Flat.  Data Source COTW 4th, page 114. I thought it gave a circa but it doesn't. I believe this cartridge was first produced in 1870-1871. I read that somewhere but I cannot find the reference. 44 Russian was 1870, and 44 American is 1869.

It looks like that the 44 American is S & W 's copy/(version) of the 44 Henry Flat C.F., with minor dimensional changes of the brass.

[Sir Charles deMouton-Black]

1/2 H2O Charlie;  Is the cartridge case conversion book the one by Nonte?  About 20 years ago I justabout wore the print off a library copy, until it was stolen.  I memorized the techniques & tricks, and use COTW as a guide on dimensions.

I am going to try to track down the "special run" angle.  Is there any evidence of gunsmith conversions?

BTW I saw an 1866 original in .38 Spl.  Apparently it was made up in 1918, from parts located at the Winchester factory.  Thats WAY out of the accepted lifespan of 1866 to 1898.

[Halfway Creek Charlie]

This Manual is by John J. Donnelly.

I have owned a S & W Model 3 1st Model American in 44 Henry, that had been converted to C.F. It is in Southern Ca. with a collector in San Diego. It was chambered in 44 Henry R F at the factory. I have The S & W book here. Actually both of them One by Jim Supica and the other by Roy Jinks. I'll have to dig them out and see what they say about the Henry Chambering, I do remember that Supica told the approximate numbers that were made in Henry RF.

I'm almost sure that the Chambering in 44 RF by S & W was not a special run for a special company or order, too many were chambered in that caliber. Later special runs or special orders may have been done, but I do not believe so in the beginning.

I'll do some digging and see what I can come up with. I only charge $75.00 An hour for research........LOL

I do know that the 44 Russian came about as an order from the Czar of Russia and it was the first Cartridge that used an internal lubed bullet(the Czar's Idea).

[Tubac]

Charlie,
Real interesting. Tell me, does the McDowell book on conversions have any S/N 's  on the R&S conversions?
Drop me an email when you can.

Tubac.

[Books OToole]

According to The Wichester Handbook by George Madis:

"Many conversions were done outside the factory, and a fair number of guns were rechambered to fire other cartridges both center fire and rim fire."

Books