Dragoons: Powder Flasks?

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Howdy, y'all!

As a soon-to-be-proud owner of a real Colt 2nd Gen. Dragoon, 1st Model (I think - but perhaps 3rd Mod. with the main feature I noticed of a rounded trigger guard), I have a question.

What is the proper powder flask that was issued/came with the Dragoons?  I have the crossed rifle flask that Colt had during the 1860 - on time period, but was that first introduced with the Dragoons?  I've seen repro Walker flasks, but don't know if that carried on 'thru the Dragoons.

Also, what is the normal charge weight for the originals?  I'm pretty sure that the Walkers used a 60 gr.(vol.) MAX charge, but due to some (many) iron cylinders shooting themselves broken, I'd heard that Colt cut the cylinder down to where the MAX would be only 50 grs. in the Dragoons.  (Only 50 grs.      )  Keep in mind, I ain't talkin' whut I'll actually shoot - probably in the 22-30 gr. range like in my 1860, only what the MAX load with ball and/also the conical load; which, due to the bigger projectile, I'll assume () was lower than the roundball charge.

Also, were there pre-packaged paper wrapped loads with balls/conicals like what was available during the (un)Civil War?  Perhaps a small package with 6 charges and caps, if I remember right.

Thanks !!!


I'm also posting this on "the Darksider's Den" for maximum answerage. (Is that a real word? 

[James Hunt]

22 grains in a Dragoon?!?! Shame Steel Horse - SHAME!!!!! These are manly guns!!!!! Which is why I pay an undocumented alien $3.50 an hour to carry mine to the range, load it, and then hand it to me when I am ready to shoot. If you intend to use it in a match I suggest you start a training program immediately! (At are age we might as well move to steroids from the git-go cause that stuff will take 20 years to destroy our heart and liver anyway.)

Congratulations on your acquisition. I bought a 2nd gen Colt 2nd model at the 2006 NCOWS convention and it is pretty darn cool. I don't have enough hip to carry the beast on and a set of pommel holsters is out cause my horse refuses to act as a gun cart (the undocumented alien was a joke but if you find one that will work for $3.50 an hour send Julio over to the house).

As far as loading - I loaned my copy of Venturino's first book out to Brass but from memory I believe Venturino states that the Wallker was indeed loaded with 60 grains but that the Dragoon were reduced to 50 grains. I think his shooting data is with that amount. Having said that I have only used mine with 40 grains as that is the largest spout I have on my flask. The chamber appears that it will hold 50 with a round ball. The later is in contrast with a Uberti Walker that I own (impulse purchase at Cabella's) which will only hold 40 in the chamber - unlike that later as far as I am concerned the 2nd gen guns are Colts!!! and appear to hold the amount intended for them (yes I know the 2nd gen story - but I own three of them and they are as fine as anything that ever came out of the colt factory). With 40 grains and the weight of the dragoon it is easily handled.

The Flask: Short answer I don't know. But, Steel Canvas by R.L. Wilson shows cased sets on page 105 and 124 with flasks. On which appears to be an older set of 2nd mod shows a strange sporting type flask with a flying bird on it, distinctly non-military while the other set of 3rd mod. shows what appears to be a traditional CW flask of crossed flags and cannon. I would be also interested in finding out what "issue" flask was used.

If you don't have Steel Canvas it is an interesting coffee table book that can usually be picked up in the bargain section for $20 - which is what I did. Buy it, poor R.L. needs the cash for his appeal process!!!!

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Jmes Hunt said:  "22 grains in a Dragoon?!?! Shame Steel Horse - SHAME!!!!! These are manly guns!!!!! Which is why I pay an undocumented alien $3.50 an hour to carry mine to the range, load it, and then hand it to me when I am ready to shoot. If you intend to use it in a match I suggest you start a training program immediately! (At are age we might as well move to steroids from the git-go cause that stuff will take 20 years to destroy our heart and liver anyway.)"


I feel shamed.     

Actually, what I MEANT to say, is that the 22 - 30 gr. load I use in my 1860 (poured from a 30 gr. spout) is what I'd START   with!  If I planned to stay at the lowest level, I'd shoot my 36 cal. Leech & Rigdon (sorta-kinda like - it has the Colt engraved cylinder, but everything ELSE is Leech & Rigdon) "battlefield pick-up" sidearm!

Sounds like I'll have to buy a bigger spout(s).  By the way, the 22 gr. figure I mentioned was because I've actually had a can of powder (Pyrodex) that, from the 30 gr. spout, actually threw 22 (and a bit) measured   grains!  Mostly, I get about 26.5 - 27.5 grs. (weighed) of Goex 3f (what I mostly shoot nowadays ... no P'dex) from the flask/30 gr.spout.

Adios!

[St. George]

The standard flask associated with the Colt's Dragoon - 1st, 2d, 3d and London Models - was the 'Stand of Flags' style that featured two suspension rings and a plunger, and were 'brown finished'.

You can see one on page 93 of Sutherland and Wilson's 'The Book of Colt Firearms'.

Vaya,

Scouts Out!

[Steel Horse Bailey]

Thanks.  I didn't know just WHAT that flask style was properly called.

I also have one of the "dog" flasks, but that type was for Remingtons.

[St. George]

The difinitive work on the subject is Ray Riling's 'The Powder Flask Book'.

It goes into great detail - with numerous photos - and can be found on the secondary market.

Scouts Out!